Living the Bleisure Life with Ash Chow

#119 - Ash Chow (Edited)

Fri, Jan 31, 2025 9:10AM • 45:35

00:00

Emma, do you want to live a life of freedom and adventure? Are you wanting more than the daily grind? Me too. Welcome to the Emma Lovell, show a place where we talk about living a life you love. Now I'm your host, Emma Lovell, and my number one value is freedom. I've spent the last 14 years running a business and traveling the world, and now I take my husband and toddler along for the adventure too. It's possible, and I know you can create a life doing what you truly love as well. This podcast will inspire, motivate and encourage you to go after your dreams, to create a life you love and to live it now, not wait for a time and or someday in the future, I'll be sharing episodes weekly about how I harmonize business travel and self care. I'll also bring on incredible guests to share their journeys, the wins, the challenges, and how they're creating a life they love. Let's jump in and get dreaming. This is a space for you to manifest a life you love.

01:03

I would like to acknowledge and recognize Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as the first peoples of this place, now known as Australia. I am grateful for the continuing care of the land, waterways and skies where I work, live, listen, learn and play from here on, you can bear country and from wherever you are listening, I pay my respects to the elders past and present.

01:26

Welcome to the podcast. Today, I'm so excited to introduce you to ash Chow, who is totally embodying the pleasure life she is currently living in London, and she shares how she's making it work, as she travels, lives abroad and runs her business. Ash is a launch strategist and copywriter. And I met her at the content bites Summit. It was wonderful to connect with her, but she'd also seen me online and had picked up my book and read a little bit of it, which was fantastic. So it was a beautiful connection from the get go. Ash is, as I said, a launch strategist and conversation copywriter for high integrity creators and coaches who are looking to skyrocket their visibility and bank account through copy that creates a powerful emotional bond from high performing sales pages that's drooping with personality to actionable pre launch content. Ash is the go to copywriter online business owners call when they want to make a meaningful splash with their launches without sacrificing integrity or profit. Off the clock. Ash's passions include drinking far too much dirty chai and Maria watching Grey's Anatomy for the 20th time. And I think we could probably add to that travel as well. Ash. I think this is a really great conversation. Very honest. Ash is doing this big adventure with her husband as well and making it all work. So please do listen. I hope you get some wonderful tips, and we'll be sharing much more about how people are living their pleasure life and examples, so you can start to do that for yourself too. Alright, let's dive in.

03:01

Welcome to the podcast. Ash Chow, how are you? Hi, Emma. I'm so happy to be here. So thank you for inviting me on. Well, I would be saying good morning, but for you, it is good evening because I am in Australia and you are in London. So thank you for staying up. And let us kick off by talking a little bit about who you are. Tell us who you are in your words. Yeah, so right now, I am a launch strategist and a copywriter for high integrity creators who really want to make an emotional connection beyond just making sales. And like most copywriters, I didn't start out doing it like I from a very young age, was like, I'm going to be a lawyer. I worked really, really hard to get myself into law school, and I achieved that goal, which yay for me. I only see it like halfway through it and realize that what I wanted, this was like, not what I had wanted for myself in reality. You know, I think I just wanted the idea of it, the status, the money, the privilege, but, like, it wasn't actually who I wanted to become. So of course, like being a typical, like millennial, I was like, You know what? I've got the internet at my fingertips. I'm just gonna like, word vomit all my feelings online on a blog. And luckily for me, that blog ended up being found by another business owner who said, Hey, I love what you've written. Would you like to write for me? And so that is how I discovered what copywriting is, and that I could actually make a really good living being location independent, making good money, and also doing something that was really fulfilling. And so now I help a lot, of course, creators and coaches with their sales copy, so that they can make more sales and grow their business without the ick. And currently, as you said, I am on my own sort of I'm living out that location, independent lifestyle, because for the next two years, my husband and I are going to be are currently traveling and working abroad through Europe. So we are currently six months into our journey, and.

05:00

Based in London at the moment.

05:02

I love it. And the you know, copywriting and anything where you're predominantly working on your computer is such a perfect setup for it. And it's funny, I just had somebody email the other day, and I've launched a new retreat, and she's like, I really want to come on one of your retreats. But because I read your book, I was so inspired to go and do this, like blizzuring. So she's like, at those dates, I'm going to be away for a month, like, doing the whole moving forward writing thing. And I was like, and it's just funny, because we've been doing it for so long, but we create this. You still, even though you work from your laptop and sometimes your phone, you still create this, I need to be here at work, in my office in order to be generating income. And there's still moments I catch myself where I'm like, Oh, I'm gonna be traveling. Okay, well, less income. And I was like, no, why is that the story? Why can't I be making more money when I'm away? Like,

05:57

yes, yes, I love that. And I also had to challenge those beliefs as well, because I've been doing this for me, like, three, four years. But it was like, part to be like, Why didn't I do this even sooner? And of course, they were like practical considerations as well. But it was like I could have, at any moment, picked up my laptop, gone literally anywhere besides just the cafe or just the beach, and actually still have made really good money, and even now, that's a belief I'm constantly challenging myself with. Like, do I have to stay in just London? Or, like, can I go to other countries as well, but and also make the same, if not more, income than I was back in Australia? So yeah, that's constantly testing that belief right now. Yeah. And I think that's because it's sort of a societal thing. And look, there are times though, you know where I think, if you're traveling, like,

06:46

I learned that, like, a travel day is not a work day. I used to be like, and I'll be on a bus for three hours, and then I'll be waiting for and I've got like two hours in the airport, and then I've got like two hours here, and it's like, by the time it all added up, I probably had like 20 minutes. So those like, maybe just leave the travel especially if you're with your partner, it's like, your partner, it's like, just make the travel day a travel day, and then have the time in the place. So sometimes, just, I don't know me personally, slightly unrealistic about the blocks of time that I had because, well, then you know, train is running late, blah, blah, blah, you're moving about. You can't find a spot, trying to Yeah, for sure work. It's it's just not as feasible. So it's like, again, let's just count that as a not working day. It's fine. And then if I'm in a place for four days, well, then I can create a routine for those four days. But if I'm going to be like, traipsing about all day, I'm probably going to be tired to then sit down at night and do a lot of stuff. It's a bit unrealistic. Yeah, 100% it's always funny. I was saying to my husband how even on travel days, when all you're literally doing is like, you're maybe, like, sitting in a cab or the train to get to the airport, and then all you're doing is just sitting on a plane, and then you're just sitting and sitting, but you're just so tired from that mental load of making sure you get there on time, making sure you get on the right bus, the right flight, and by the end, there's absolutely like, no way you were doing any sort of deep work, like even trying to come up with an Instagram caption on the fly, because you might as well be making use of that dead time. It's still like, I'm not putting out the best work. I'm not going to be Hemmingway in this moment while I'm exhausted from schlepping, schlepping across the city to get to the airport or, you know, so I totally, totally get that. And I think that's why a big part of us this journey was us trying to also balance some slow travel movements as well as fast travel,

08:35

yeah, and that's what, how would you describe slow travel?

08:39

Because when I first heard it, I was like, Oh, you're killing my soul. But like, as I've like, I'm like, okay, yeah, there's a different definition than maybe my version. So what's your definition of slow travel? Yeah, I love it. So this term came to me when I was talking to a girlfriend about our potential upcoming trip, and this was just the seed of an idea, and she said to me, Oh, well, of course, you know you'll be in one place for a couple of months and doing flow travel, because you'll still be working. And I was like, oh, yeah, and yeah, it hadn't occurred to me that, because I was still planning to grow my business and work, and so is my partner. We can't just do the typical travel thing where you're like, in Cambodia for three days, and you're in Laos for another three days, and you're in Vietnam for three days, like you can't do that and balance work and be sane. So slow travel I've now come to realize is, basically, to me, is where you are going to one destination, and you were staying there for a decent chunk of time, like at least three months to a sorry, three weeks to a month. Or even in my head, it was like around three months, and you're basically like, planting roots there for a brief period of time. You're actually like, living there. So unlike being, I don't want to say like just a tourist, because I still am a tourist, but unlike being in fast travel, where you are just ticking off, like the 10, must do things in each city and.

10:00

And you bounce out and you go slow travel is where, like, you find some sort of like, long term rental place, like a flat or an Airbnb. You want a place with a kitchen so you can make news at home as well. And then you are really trying to for those for that period of time that you're there, whether it's two months or three months, you're trying to integrate into your lifestyle. You're balancing sightseeing in the morning with working in the afternoon, or vice versa, or you're doing a couple of day trips to other places, but then the rest of the week you might then be finishing off a client project. So that is how I define so travel and it allows time for domestic activities as well, like I mentioned, cooking and also laundry. And these are things that you don't think about when you are going for just like a quick weekender. But what I love about slow travel, and what I found, is that you really do get immersed into that city, like when you're fast traveling. There's only so much you can squeeze into a 48 hour or 72 hour trip, and really, unfortunately, you're just kind of scratching the surface of that city or that location, whereas slow travel, it really does allow you to just appreciate the beauty and the culture of the city that you are in, because now you're not just ticking it off. It's like, no, like, I'm immersing myself into it. So that is how I would define slow travel, and I'm a big fan of it, yeah, look, and I'm still not quite there in terms of the length of time, but definitely I think when I'd say, when you're in a partner, like with a partner or a family, you're kind of forced into slow travel in that like you do have, and you're probably more, a bit more viable in terms of the accommodation set up as well. Like you, you can afford. You know, when there's two of you, it makes more sense to get an apartment or to get like that, more home, sort of space, when you're paying for two or three people or four and I just,

11:54

you know, the like the washing as well. Like we have a we've traveled with our toddler, we have to do washing, like with Matt and I, we can sort of pack and we can make it work, and whatever, but we're trying to wash three people's clothes. And what it kind of ends up being fun is like going to the laundromat is an activity. And, you know, like asking out Italian posts, like, where's the laundromat? And like trying to follow them, and then getting there and her, like helping negotiate, and then finding the cafe, and there's an old man who talks to you while you're waiting. You know it's like, that becomes the activity, right?

12:28

Yes, yes. And even, like, going to the supermarket and then just seeing how different it is from your home country supermarket is definitely an experience in and of itself. Just trying to navigate that, realize that they have like, 10 different chocolate cereals, and only one healthy cereal, which we found in Spain. So yes, that's what I do love about slow travel in the supermarket always, like my favorite things, like the novelty Sweden, the like, whatever their logic is, don't get it, but it's so bananas and so fun. It's like tires, cereal, fishing gear, you know, like,

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bread, no, not even baking tinned goods. I don't know, car parts. And you're just like, okay, like, it was just no, like, sectioning. And I was like, something makes sense here, not to me, but so fun, naughty. I have to check it out when I when I put that, put Sweden on my list. You can see, maybe they maybe it's like, maybe it was just me, maybe just the one store that was just a whack but, like, I just thought it was brilliant. And in a way, I think I've inadvertently traveled slow, even though the time would be a lot more condensed, just because I go and stay with people. So I think you're getting that element of local travel. So I've done a lot of trips where it's going to stay with somebody, so we do a bit of sightseeing, but predominantly I'm in the home. You're you're eating just at home, you're doing whatever they do. And so that's been a really nice way to experience that sort of it's a really affordable way to travel as well. And so that even though it's been four or five or five days, it is, it does provide that, like, routine or that slower way of traveling, opposed to, like when you go and stay and I think Europe is so

14:13

that's the way you travel in Europe, because it's so easy to kind of go three days here, three days there, three days there, whereas a lot of other places, it takes you so long to Get to get to the place. You're not going to spend three days. You kind of got to spend a week

14:26

to make it, you know, viable. So, yeah, that's something to you kind of have to force yourself a little bit in Europe to be like, No, we can stay longer, even though, yes, it's a country. For me, it's like, there's a country just there. Like, kind of, it's just like, an hour away. Kind of, just drive there, please? It's like, no, just be here.

14:45

Yeah, 100%

14:47

and so you're living in London at the moment, and we just chatted off of air a bit, um, and I said to you, London is great when you have money. How do you feel about that? I feel like that. 100% just where?

15:00

Presents where we are in our current point in time. So because, if you don't know, at this point in time, the currency conversion is for every dollar you get, like 50 pence. So it's like two times, and it's like, basically your savings just gets sliced in half because of the currency. And we recently was going, we're going through, like, a flat hunting ordeal. And, you know, the prices we pay for the mortgage or just rent in Australia, like we complain about that, because, of course, we do, like everyone's, you know, inflation and the cost of living crisis, of course, is real, but then we come here, and it was like, you're paying through the nose, but basically a shoe box. So money was definitely like a huge, huge stress out when we came over, and it still kind of is, but we've just managed it better. But I think that was the thing, because I was very used to traveling through Southeast Asian countries when I was younger, because my family is from Malaysia, and it was just cheap travel, especially for us Aussies. You know, we love our Bali. We love our Thailand, where, you know, you just pay really good money for incredible service. And then now we're experiencing what it's like to travel through the UK and Europe, where the conversion is the currency conversion is not in our favor, and you pay so much for, unfortunately, very little. And so that is, after talking to a lot of expats, something that we are all kind of navigating at the moment, but we all sort of made the move knowing it was going to be like that, but because we knew we would be getting even more in terms of access to all of Europe, in terms of access to connections, a lot of people come here to actually grow their career, for the network to meet more people for the new season of life. So yes, what you said is true. It's good when you have money and hope. And we are building we are working on that right now, but I think that it has just challenged us and helped us grow in so many ways, where we can now see what we are gaining in terms of experience and opportunities, rather than what we are losing in terms of money, yeah, and it's yeah, like, it's just yeah, it'll kind of make you or break your living in London, it's an extremely cosmopolitan city. It's fantastic. Like, you just do have basically the UN of nationality, so you're just going to have this really diverse melting pot of wonderful people in that fusion of the city. And it, it's a stunning city. I just, I think, you know, I was there when I was 18, so, you know, ended up doing the whole living in a house with 10 people having a dossier on the couch, all that sort of stuff. You get real creative, like, about how you use your money, and, you know, or you know, ways to bring in extra money I did, like a bar job so I could go to go to Denmark for a long weekend. You know, that was the motivation. But going back in future years where I've gone back to visit the family, and being able to stay in London, and I'm just like, oh my gosh, I can pay for an Uber like, sorry, I think I'm freaking. There we go. You know, paying for an Uber. I was like, Oh my gosh, well, and that's again, the cost. Like, when there's a few of you, you can have that sort of spread or shared cost. So with my husband and my son, we can do different things, or we need to do different things because we need different style of accommodation, size of the transport. And so sometimes it just doesn't make sense to schlep for two hours to the far out airport. It makes more sense for us to pay a slightly higher fee to fly straight into heat, throw, you know, whatever, like it was just able to have those when I was 18. I didn't really have that. And so I think having London is a place where, yes, there's a lot of free stuff too, but just being able to enjoy some of the things, you know, Lovell food and wonderful, great stuff. I think it just having a little bit of money makes it easier. Yeah, 100% I love what you said about like, being motivated to get creative, to make more money just because of now your living expenses are now so high. Like, I think for me, true pleasure is, and it's really motivated me to also grow my business to the point where, yes, we can afford, like, you know, the Uber across. Sorry, we can afford the Uber home from the airport or to the airport, because we can afford that now. Or, you know, we are able to pay slightly more for extra leg room on these budget airlines. Or we can afford to not have to pay for the 6am flight where you have to wake up at 2am to get to the airport on time. You know, like, of course we would originally pick that because that was the cheapest option for a reason. But, like, it's really motivating me to how can I hustle more creatively to make more money so that I don't have to spend 50 pounds less with a really shitty flight, but I can instead pay just 50 pounds for a flight that's going to be comfortable and has leg room and it's in a good time. So I think that when we were back home, we were just taking so many things for granted, like the fact that we had so much stability, and maybe it might have been.

20:00

So it helped us sort of be like, you know, what we can just settle for where we are. But now, like having, like moving across, being exposed to this environment where we have to work a little harder, it's really compelling, like both of us to be like, how can we make even more money so that we can have the lifestyle that we want? Because technically, you know, we're paying quite a lot of money to live in a flat that's really close to the city. And we did that for a reason, because we didn't want to move across the world just to live, you know, an hour outside of London, right? We want to be where it's happening, you know, like, go out to the pub, make friends, go visit our bridge and whenever we want. But we're able to do that because we and we are able to maintain this lifestyle because of the business, which I'm so thankful for. But now it's really forcing me to be like, Okay, how I'm more motivated than ever to make sure that it succeeds and it works, so that I can have the pleasure lifestyle that I want, you know, and paying that little bit extra, I think sometimes as well. We, like, really frowned upon spending money. But it's like, it's not just about saving money, it's about how you can increase your income. If you're waking up at 2am How are you going to be productive? You know, like, so whereas, like, I'll get more sleep, so then I'll be more rested, and when I get to that place, then I can do the work, deliver the work that I need to deliver, or I can think more clearly and actually have a new idea of how I could create this product or offer which could bring in more income, you know, like, but if we, if you sort of, yeah, trying to, like, just figure out the way to only to save money and only to do it, you know, on the shoe stream, then, you know, or making those choices, where you go, yeah, we're going to stay A little longer in one place instead of going to two or three places, which crushes my soul at times. But okay, think about future Emma. How would she feel? Is that, do we want to spend that extra, however much on flights to hop around? Or do we want to have, you know, a bit more of a chill time there? Kick up that money for a future trip. I can do a bit of work there be productive, and then we can do even more. So it's like, yeah, you kind of got to think about future. You a lot more than just the YOLO,

22:12

yeah, exactly. And I think I love that distinction between saving more versus trying to make more. Because I think, you know, you know, my husband comes from a corporate nine to five. So for him, where he's been used to just having, like, a steady paycheck, but a capped paycheck, it's like, his first thought of mine is always like, how can we cut back? And then, you know, freaking out over the cost of, like, a coffee will cost four pounds, which means it's eight, it's eight Aussie dollars for something that is not as good. So he's like, how can you Why are you always going out for coffee? And I'm like, no, like, first of all, the coffee trip is my self care. Number one, I need it. I need it in order to work, not to make more money, so I can afford more coffee, by the way. And also, number two, because I come from and running the business, it's like, I can come from a place of like, okay, how can I create an offer that will make more or how can I, yeah, create more opportunities where can bring in more money instead of having to cut back? And yes, there is an element of being responsible and being frugal, like you can't just accept every single opportunity that comes your way. But I think it's been really good to have that balance and knowing that, yes, save, be responsible, but also you can find so many different ways to increase your income, which is what I also love when reading your book, because you I love how like you weren't afraid to do so many things. Like, I think there was one anecdote where at one stage, yes, you had your comms business, but you also weren't afraid to be a dog walker, or you weren't afraid to, you know, do other jobs. And I love that, because I think sometimes, for me, being newer to the business world, it was like, oh, but like, if I'm not doing other things, if I'm, like, not working on just the business, and if I have to rely on, like, other random sources of income, it must mean that the business is not good, but like, hearing your story, it's like, no, no. You just you do what you can to create this, this lifestyle that you want. So I that is one of the most important things I've also taken from, like, this pleasure concept, doing what you have to do. I mean, yeah, and it's honestly like, business success is survival, and you don't want to stay in that survival, because it's not a great like, it's stressful, but it's about persistence as well. And writing out these tougher time, writing writing out when the dollar is not so good, and writing out when there's inflation, or writing out when the flights were insane, you know, and it's like, okay, well, then we have to do things a little bit differently. But also, I just always, yes, I believe, 100% believe there is more money. There's always more money, if you're willing to find it, you know. And think about your coffee. I mean, you could have a four pound downloadable that, you know, if someone every day downloaded your free you know, your four pound how to guide coffee.

25:00

Up Hubby, so no drummies. But also, like every finance expert around says, have your coffee like, stop thinking about your you know, my coffee is $8.50 here because I get an iced coffee and it's like, but as you said, it makes me go for a walk. I go for a walk. I walk down the beach after I think I like, you know, I get ideas, feel refreshed, and then I start my day, or it makes me have a break in the middle of the day to go and do that. And so it's like, Is that worth $8.50 Absolutely, it's worth $8.50 there are other days where I decide it's not worth $8.50 I'll have the coffee in my house, you know. But I think, don't think cutting back is always the answer, because you then smaller, you come into this lack. And I understand it's, you know, my husband's also in a full time role, like, you know, we're in a fixed income role. But even then, there's ways that they could be generating other income, and things that I wasn't looking at in the past, which are shares or having an investment property, which is a big thing, but it's just so many other ways. And I talked to my mother in law the other day, and I said, I'm still very willing to do, like, the promo work that I used to do, where I got paid $30 an hour, because sometimes we were doing, like, cool gigs, you know, I got to go to events that I wouldn't have been able to afford, or wouldn't have paid for, like, Big Day Out $200 tickets or two $50 tickets, you know, but I got paid to be there, and then I got to attend, or like, Moonlight cinema that costs 30, $40

26:27

well, I worked there for a few hours, made money, and then they said, stay and watch the movie. You know, it's just a nice thing to do. And so then I'm like, if this, I would still, and I still do volunteer at events in order to get my ticket compensated. And it's like, Oh, I'm not, I'm not willing to do that hour before the event, or to be like, and then they

26:48

said they're happy to spend $300 and I'm like, that's your choice. You don't have to. But then don't come and complain to me that you can't have a night away, because that that to me, that's that $300 hotel, right? That's a night in a lovely hotel with my husband and I got to go to the event.

27:04

Yeah, yeah. I love that. I love, like, finding those different opportunities to make income, which your book definitely, like, opened my eyes to. Because, as I said, I think as business owners, we're, like, it has to be the business or nothing, because maybe the pride thing and the ego thing for sure, but yes, there are so many ways that both my husband and I can be making income separately. And I also love that fact about self care, because I think, like before I made this trip abroad, I had very minimal self care. I barely left the house because I'm just a very homebody introvert, but like now being in a whole different country and wanting to make the most of the experience, like, Yes, I'm now walking every morning to get said coffee, but it's also inspiring me to move a lot more, to seize the day a lot more, rather than wasted. It's like, you know, we're only either here once, or we want to make the most of the time that we are here, so we are going out more for weekends. We're also prioritizing making friends a lot, which has become a big topic for us, especially as expats. Like moving somewhere where we barely know anybody, and leaving the community behind, like back home, we probably never ventured out of our core friendship group. Because why do you need to and of course, I made lots of online business friends just by scrolling on Instagram. But in terms of, like, real life friendships weren't something that we were actively building because, like I said, there was no need to but now, having moved here, we have made it like one of our goals to be like, how can we be meeting new people and nurturing those new relationships every single week so that we do have a community here, and we do have people to hang out with on the weekends, and we do have people to travel with. And I have been really grateful for that, because, yeah, if I stayed in my bubble back home, I would still have the same friends, and those friends will probably be transient, depending on the different seasons, whereas now I'm actively working on my friendship making skills, which, you know, is something I'm I am good at, but it just takes a lot of time and a lot of energy to nurture them as well. But I think that is what moving and the pleasure lifestyle has helped, has given me as well, the ability to make new connections and friends. And it's essential. It's essential in life, but it's also essential as a business owner. And you know, coming to the event where we got to meet in person, where you spoke, you know those, those people are my colleagues, but they're also my friends. You know, they're they're confidants, they're people. I've called Rachel from Rachel's lists at, you know, like needing the guidance and same she's called me, you know, because we don't have offers, we don't have colleagues. We you and I are sitting me, myself, and I are in our offices alone, and you know, you get an email from a client and you don't know how to deal with it. You can't just turn around and blow off steam to your colleague. So you're having these online, virtual relationships and seeing other people doing it. It's it's really powerful and really necessary. And as you were speaking, I was like, Oh, I know two people in London who would be.

30:00

You will be so perfect to meet. So I'm going to introduce you one of them I met on a boat in Cinque Terre, and I was in a foul mood. Oh, my God. Thankfully, lovely couple just introduced himself and sort of asked us how we going. I can't be a total dick. So I started talking amazing couple. They bought my book. I talked about my book and it bought my book. Wow, that's amazing, like, when you come to London, I'm going to, like, crash your book launch. I was like, no, no, you're like, invited, and you're going to help me, so we'll do a book event. You'll come. It'll be great when I come over at some point. But anyway, it's just, yeah, that's incredible that you get, you know, and then you get to have those connections. Now, I did see a funny reel or video that you shared. Wasn't funny. It was a video that you shared, but I thought it was funny, because you were, you were planning with your husband for the year ahead, which I have also been doing with my husband. But I would not film it because it was,

30:51

it

30:53

was a negotiation. It was compromised. There was heat, so I wouldn't, it's a process, so, but yeah, tell me a little bit about what you were doing that video, or why you're like, how you do that together.

31:05

Yeah. So the video Emma was talking about is my husband and I a couple days ago decided to actually, intentionally sit down and be and plan how we wanted the year to look. And normally, this is something that we, we vaguely talk about. We don't normally make it a process. We're just like, okay, cool. We're moving away this year, cool. And we just have these, like, mutual goals, but we never really, like, physically put it down on paper or talked about it, and then, as Emma said, like in a map, like in a relationship, that miscommunication or just not being on the same page can lead to a lot of, like, sometimes arguments, a lot of frustration down the road, because you thought you were on the same page and you're not. So that's why this year, we intentionally, like, sat down and we said, hey, like, let's have a proper look at like what we want. Like our finances to look like what we want. Our travel, upcoming travel year to look like what we want. Our marriage, of course, our relationship, to look like our social life and career and business. And we basically divided it into, like being reflective, so looking back to what went well, but also what didn't work better. So what didn't work as well. And then number two, which was the the goal setting part. And I think yes, that is the place where sometimes there was also a lot of heat for us as well, where I wanted something, and then my husband wanted something else, until we would have to, kind of like, negotiate and figure out, how can we achieve bars. So one example is actually, at the moment, my husband is still navigating the job market. So he's currently still fun employed, which is fun. I'm very grateful for him, because this is the first time he has stopped working for a very long time in his career. So this has been a much needed sabbatical. But of course, with that, like now, with only one income, it becomes a stressor. And I'm not afraid to talk about the fact that the finances has been a stressor on this whole thing. And of course, it means that we are constantly kind of like navigating that. So with him not having a job, potentially at this point, but very close to getting one, we're dealing with a lot of uncertainty around, like, what will his work schedule look like depending on the type of job he gets? And then, of course, like money and so because a lot of that is up in the air, we can't quite pin down some of the travel locations that we want to go to. So, for example, February 10, which is a month from now, will be our second year wedding anniversary. And ideally, of course, being so close to Europe, it would be nice to go celebrate somewhere in Europe. But then, of course, it was like, and so I think I brought that up in the planning, like I'd want to go, I don't know, somewhere France, but not Paris, because that's cliche. But like, somewhere cool, right? And then he was like, like, yeah, I want that for us too. But like, again, like, I don't know what type of job will I get, like, if it's going to be a contract one or a remote one, and then, of course, like, the money and all that kind of thing, and that kind of, like, sucked, right? Like, not being able to be like, yes, we're going to go there on this specific day to celebrate this specific milestone because of just so much of all of the uncertainty. And then, of course, that like comes into like, having to navigate that together. So it wasn't all like, organized, you know, it wasn't all organized and peaceful. It was like having to sit with that frustration, but then be okay with that. But I think back to six months ago, when we first started and we were still dealing with just so much uncertainty, which is what this pleasure lifestyle can sometimes bring, and that's okay, but you know, we were just like drowning in that, and I think we both just didn't know how to deal with that. Because, like I said, he'd always had some sort of stable paycheck in his life, and I was always, you know, not stable because, like, I'd started my own business, but like, there was always lots of protection around me, because I had a community back home, I was also back in Australia, whereas now we were having to deal with, just like so many stressors.

35:00

So many unknowns, but I think in the last six months, we've gotten really good at dealing with that uncertainty. And so we've gone from drowning in it to being able to tread water in it. And so this planning process kind of at least helped us align and get on the same page as to like, what are the main places we want to tick off? What are the main in an ideal world, yes, when, when would we go? Where would we go? But then also making space for like, and even if we can't, that's okay, because we can still kind of figure something out. So that was, like, our process, in a nutshell. But all of that to say that

35:37

in in the past, we probably would have, like, dealt with it separately, and then just kind of held on to these frustrations, whereas now being able to sit down and talk about it properly meant that, like it was out in the air, we were both on the same page, and we could both work with it and deal with it together, as opposed to like separately and being against each other. I love it. And I the one of the keywords you said there was pride and like that you and the proud that how proud you were, that you were doing it together. I think it is. It's not an easy thing. But you know what I talk about is part of the pleasure lifestyle. It's not just about you gallivanting around the world. It's when you you, you doing the pleasure. Because someone says, like, thought of as a pleasure business. It's like, no, it's a pleasure. Love Your Partner is part of that. And like, I just had a retreat in Sri Lanka, and I really struggled because I missed Matt and Finn so much, like, my heart wasn't with me, and I had planned for them to come, and then I changed the plan. I said, Don't come. We'll go another time. It's just, I'd rather save. You know, this is a negotiation I'd call compromises. I'd rather save those funds and go on another trip in the future, but then I just miss them so much. And so then me looking at this year, I'm like, how much time can I really be away from them, solo? Or, like, do I need to take fin on every trip? Or am I going to be is it going to be a different circumstance? It's like, how much time am I willing to go away to do work. Can i Is it viable for me to take my son and then I need other support, and then my husband, for this is the compromise, the negotiation. You know, I was planning, like, a two month slow travel, um, but he's just, he's just, like, I won't cope, like, I won't be able to do that long. So he sort of said he's limited age with our son, the age he's at is three and a half weeks, and also, realistically, with probably his come like the company he works for as well, to take that chunk of time. And so, you know, I've had to adjust what that looks like and

37:34

how we make that work, and how I feel about that, or do I still go away for a longer time, but, you know, have some support, go to a place, you know. So it's just working all that out, but doing it at this time, when it is kind of this open, it's open. And I think also making a plan, right? Like I said, I made the plan for Sri Lanka, and we changed the plan so you can still plan. I think there's so much, there can be so much joy in the planning and the dreaming, and that's the aspiration and the where are we going to go in France, you know, like, oh, what can we do?

38:06

You know, I would also say to you, like, the value of a long weekend or even a weekend away. Like, I think there's just so much little top up of the tank with that. And it's not like, yes, of course you'd want to have longer times. But, you know, even planning in those little ones, like in the year, that's something we're doing is like, the date night must be locked in the

38:28

we can have an owner. It has to be locked in or, or at least planned for now, because otherwise, next thing you know, it's August, and we're like, well, we've not really had a night together. So doing this, this work, it's big work, and it's, it just, it's really powerful. So I really admire you doing that. Yeah, yeah. And that to that point, I think, like, last six months because of, like, like, I get it, I said, all that uncertainty with Ben's fun employment, we were being very reactive as opposed to proactive. So it was like we were booking things at the last minute, making journeys at the last minute. And of course, that adds up, because if you're doing it the last minute, it's way more expensive compared to if you're able to plan, you know, six months ahead. Like, for example, I'm thinking Europe summer is like, June, July, August. You know, my dog's gonna be expensive. So we better, we better, like, kind of lock that in now and try to be proactive where possible. And then sometimes you can be like, you said, like we can do, like quick weekenders, more affordable ones, things like that. But then there are times when, due to circumstances, maybe you can't, and I think that was what I was really struggling with at the start, like not being able to plan everything perfectly, or have things go to plan. But now one of the greatest like growth skills I've come out with, is being able to deal with with the curve balls that life throws. And if we have to be reactive, fine, but like managing that emotionally has also been really, you know, helpful for us as well.

39:58

Oh, it's I'm so excited.

40:00

To see your journey, and you're just getting started, I think we'll really have to have you come back on again in like, a year, and we can talk about what's happening and where you're up to and what you've learned. You're getting so many wonderful, yeah, life lessons as well as business lessons. And, yeah, definitely the cliche of it's a journey, but yeah, it's really wonderful to witness, and I'm enjoying following your journey, but I'm going to ask you one more question before we wrap up, and that is, what does living a life you love look like? Now,

40:31

big question, but I think you know right now, living a life I love is really about finding joy in the little dicks like so for me, it's like being able to wake up in London, which is really cool, and knowing that I get to build a business that I care about, while still making time to explore new places. And I think in the past, I would have defined it as like hitting all the big milestones, but now I know it's more about, like I said, the little bit, little things, like creating a life where I feel fulfilled and present, and then having that balance as well. And then internally, I think living a life I love is where I also trust myself more, instead of just being drenched in so much self doubt, which I was like, just drowning in it before the trip, but now, like having gone through this, having done it, having survived it, I can trust now that I am capable of figuring things out as they come. And then lastly, I think it's about living a life I love is being about more intentional with connecting with people. So like I said in this conversation, it's really we awaken that spark to like, go out and meet new people like be the invitation, instead of waiting to be invited and just having those people around us who understand what it's like to be expats and to move abroad like that has been really helpful, and it has made our life here a lot richer. So all of that to say, everything I just said, is how what living a life I love looks like right now. I love that be the invitation. That's wonderful. And, yeah, you're very wise,

42:08

okay? Because, yeah, like, there's the big milestones, and, of course, celebrating the big things that you've done. But so many times you can be doing this, what, what we would all see is this fabulous thing. You know, you're in London bridges over there and popping off of France. But you could just be suffering, and it could be sucking, because if you are just hustling the whole time, and then that's where I say the, you know, London's great. We have money. Because I saw people hate London when I lived there was like that backpacking thing, you know, and they would just, like, kind of put up with London so that then they could go on their two month big trip and do this wonderful thing in Africa, or two months traveling around Europe, and then they would come back and eat noodles and just hate on London, and then do it all again. It's just this feast or famine. Like, really

42:56

famine. And I just thought, you're just missing out on the day to day. And my housemates, they just will party and just get wasted and then, yeah, only kind of go do the Europe travels, like you just, you're wasting your time. We live right near a beautiful park. There's so many amazing museums. There's just, you know, the melting pot of amazing different cultures and food in London, like you're not enjoying the place you're living, just so that you can do the thing that you think you want to do. And it's just such a way. So I love that you're even that little mindful walk in the morning and not taking that it's that's the gift. Yeah,

43:35

exactly. It's like finding joy in the small moments and little things, because that's what life is, you know. And you'll look back on your time in London, and however long it is, and you'll go, wow, like, I you'll still have this, you know, as opposed to people who I know who still have this, like, of that time, because, oh, they glorify this one bit and really look down on the other bit, and it's like, you know, this whole bit is your life. It's not just a book you put away, you know, in the drawer, and go, Oh, that was that. Like, this is all this everyday, is life, and you're, you're living it. And I love it.

44:07

So beautiful. Ash, tell us, how can we connect with you and like, you know, how can people come and help you grow your wonderful business by working with you? Yes, so you can connect with me on Instagram at, it's ash Chow. I'm very active on there, and love posting about, you know, my work and, of course, my travels. And if you wanted to follow the travels specifically, we have an account documenting all of that called at the roundup.co. So would love if you could give me a follow, send me a DM, and we'd love to connect and show you what I've been up to that's wonderful. Ash, thank you so much. We'll put all your links and everything in the show notes. And I genuinely Yeah, let's make a date. We'll come back in a year and hear how it's all going. It's been wonderful and such a pleasure to meet you. Amazing. You too, Emma.

44:53

Thank you for listening. Lovely one. I hope this has inspired you to dream big and start creating a life you love today.

45:00

A if you love what you're hearing, don't forget to follow and rate on Spotify and rate review and subscribe on iTunes. It helps other awesome people to find this podcast and get motivated and inspired as well. Want to stay connected, come and join the live a life you love, group on Facebook or connect with me on Instagram. Emma lovell.au the same as my website, but all the details are in the show notes. Lovely. I'll see you next episode for more inspiration, motivation and freedom, seeking. Now go out there and live a life you love. You.