The Truth About Publishing with Michael Hanrahan

# Michael Hanrahan (Edited)

Tue, Feb 11, 2025 6:32AM • 45:37

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Emma, do you want to live a life of freedom and adventure? Are you wanting more than the daily grind? Me too. Welcome to the Emma Lovell, show a place where we talk about living a life you love. Now I'm your host, Emma Lovell, and my number one value is freedom. I've spent the last 14 years running a business and traveling the world, and now I take my husband and toddler along for the adventure too. It's possible, and I know you can create a life doing what you truly love as well. This podcast will inspire, motivate and encourage you to go after your dreams, to create a life you love and to live it now, not wait for a time and or someday in the future, I'll be sharing episodes weekly about how I harmonize business travel and self care. I'll also bring on incredible guests to share their journeys, the wins, the challenges, and how they're creating a life they love. Let's jump in and get dreaming. This is a space for you to manifest a life you love.

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I would like to acknowledge and recognize Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as the first peoples of this place, now known as Australia. I am grateful for the continuing care of the land, waterways and skies where I work, live, listen, learn and play from here on, you can bear country and from wherever you are listening, I pay my respects to the elders past and present.

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Welcome to the podcast. Today, I am so excited to introduce you to Michael Hanrahan, founder and MD at publish Central. Michael is actually the service publisher that I use to produce my book, The Art of pleasure, and I am eternally thankful to Michael and the whole team at publish central for helping me to achieve, really, like a half a lifetime dream. So let's dive in and hear a little bit more about Michael. He grew up in a house full of books, inheriting his father's love of writing. He began in publishing at write books, and later became managing editor at John Wiley and Sons Australia, working on hundreds of books over 20 years, but in 2003 he turned down a role at Penguin to go freelance, collaborating with major publishers. He founded Michael Hanrahan publishing in 2014 now publish Central, and it's Australia's leading non fiction self publishing service. He's a speaker, author and co founder of the Australian book Business Book Awards, the Abba awards. And Michael has been featured in major media and presents regularly at industry events. You can learn more about them@publishcentral.com.au

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and if you need somebody to rave about them, just ask me. I am so happy with this service and love what they do. So no further ado. Let's dive into the conversation. And if you're interested in writing a book, this one is for you. Alright, let's go.

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Welcome to the podcast. Michael Hanrahan,

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thanks for having me great be here. So Michael, I always get people to I could talk all about you, but I also like to get people to say in your words, who are you? Yes. So I'm the Founder and Managing Director of publish Central. We're a self publishing company. We specialize in non fiction books, and I'm also the co founder of the Australian Business Book Awards. So that's that's me, very short summary. We are definitely going to dig into how you got to be there, but I will open with a huge thank you, because without you, Michael and your fabulous team, I would not have my wonderful book in my hands. Humble opinion, a wonderful book, The Art of pleasure, would not have been delivered on time,

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on time in my hands. I think I'm still a little bit in shock and disbelief without your amazing team, and it is, is better than I could have ever imagined. It is everything I envisioned. And, you know, 19 years in the making, and it's the, it's the the book I'm very proud of, so epic. You're both welcome, and we're very glad to be able to help. Yeah, and so what let's kick off with, I mean, how did you get into this? You've been, I think you said, like, 20 years you've been doing, yeah, 2023, I think, now, and too, too many to think about. So I've been around writing and publishing my whole life. My dad was a writer, so I probably first went to my first book launch when I was, like, three years old, or something like that. Did a writing and editing degree at university, got a job as an editor at a small publishing company out of university,

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they then got taken over by a large publishing company, John Wiley and Sons. So I've seen both sides of the equation, small publishing and large publishing.

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After some time at John Wiley and Sons decided to go freelance. So then worked as a freelance editor for around about 10 years, which I absolutely love. Then noticed the very strong trend towards self publishing, which has happened in the last sort of 810, 12 years. So we switched our business over. I say we my partner, Anna, who you met through.

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Process was in the business with me, we switched over to focus on self publishing around about 10 years ago. Amazing. Now, yeah, that's a really important definition. And I think

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most people are quite clueless as to all of these that wouldn't even probably notice. They would know some of the big publishing houses and and that, but they wouldn't notice the little logo on the bottom of the book. And people, once they start to go down this line at this route, realize there's this kind of self published or published, but there is, it seems like a real rainbow spectrum going on. And so can you explain the different types of publishing and where you sit because, yeah, I've been trying to tell people how you how we work together. It is a bit complicated, so you use the perfect word. It's very much a spectrum these days, like it's a massive, wide spectrum. When I first started in publishing, there was self publishing and traditional publishing, and not much in between. These days, there's a range of things you can do in between. So there's all sorts of different models. There are companies these days called hybrid publishers, which, as the name suggests, are halfway between traditional publishing and self publishing. The main differences are some companies most people are familiar with. You know penguin text, party grants, you know Simon and Schuster, all those sorts of companies. They are traditional publishers. John Wiley and Sons, they are traditional publishers, which means the company pays to produce the book, and they pay the author a royalty for each sale. So that's traditional publishing. The other end of the spectrum is self publishing. So we are 100% self publishing. So some companies are kind of 90% self publishing. That's where the hybrid comes in. We are 100% self publishing. What that means is

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people pay us to produce the book. So it's just the same as you pay your web person to do your website, or you pay your graphic designer to do your logo, people pay us to do the book. So we are not actually the publisher. So you, Emma, are obviously the publisher of your own book. We're not actually the publisher. We're a service provider that you pay us to produce the book. And then the other side of being self publishing is we don't take a cut of sales. So if you sell five copies, 500 copies, 5 million copies. You get all the profits from that. So we don't take a cut at all. We are literally a company you pay to produce the book. Yeah, yeah, amazing. And so, when I've been describing you to people, it's I've said serviced publisher or service publisher, yep, yep, service, yeah, service provides something like that's absolutely fine, yeah? And so on my book, which was a really proud and exciting thing to have, in the end, was I ended up starting a new company,

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creating, you know, so that I could publish under my own publishing company, and in future, any books. And so I ended up naming that after my son, quick fin publishing and I, we got a little logo. But if you and I am holding up the book for those who are listening, and then when you go inside the book, there's published Central, your logo is in there, but there and then the details are in the the all the fancy you know, who published the book, and all that sort of stuff. Book production and text design by publish Central. So then it's interesting, people won't even pay attention to those pages or that it's in the National Library, that sort of thing. And now it's so funny, I always open up that page and see, well, in the year it's printed as well, sometimes, because you think the books to you, the book's actually been, this is a reprint, and it's actually been around since, I don't know, 20 years ago. So it's so funny, before that page didn't mean anything. Now, now you know exactly what to look for, yeah, knowing what those pages are. And something that I wanted to bring up with you, too. And it's to clarification that I've made on every single time, interview, podcast, anything I talk about, if somebody says, comes along and says, I don't want to write a book, I say, Now, are you writing a book? Are you publishing a book? Yes, different. Yeah, exactly right. Um, so I given what I do and like, say, given, you know, give my dad and give my upbringing. Every second person I meet tells me how they're going to write a book. My first response to that is, good on you. That's great. But secondly, I don't believe you. It's like I just until you've written it, I don't care and like that. That makes it sounds a little bit harsh, but the number of people who say they're going to rook and write a book, and they don't. So writing and publishing are two very, very different things.

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Writing is actually the harder part. You're, you're, you know, you're a published author. Now, you know this, writing is actually the difficult part. So until you've, until you've written a book, you can't get into the publishing process. So saying you you're going to publish a book, you know, five.

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Of some writing at first kind of thing, and talk talking about it is not writing. You know, joining a writers group is not writing. Chatting on social media about writing is not writing. Writing is writing. So, yeah, don't, don't, don't talk about it. Just do it. I do, unfortunately, hear that a lot, but you're like saying, to be honest, I I don't believe when people tell me that most of the time. Well, it's funny, because I know that I would have said that to so many people over the years. And I think some people have said to me, you should write a book. And I'm like, I will just not there yet. And I knew that, I knew it was in the cloud and going to come, you know, it was, it was inevitable, but it was just when and what book, because there are many swirling around my mind as you now know Michael, the weekly, I've got an idea. You're like, Okay, we'll talk later.

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But I then, once I was writing the book, people were saying to me too, and I did have that little like, Yeah, cool. And I think

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I hope that it didn't come across to people who have published a book the way it came across to me with this sort of person, like, because once you know what it takes, I found a lot of authors really supportive. And I think once, because I was, it wasn't, I'm going to write a book. It's like writing the book. Yes, I'm selling tickets for the launch. Like, that's very different. Yeah, that's different because I have six chapters of two other books. One, one will become something. One will never see the light of day. And I'm probably going to probably going to print publish as a free ebook, kind of as this is, if you want to know about personal brand, this is what I wrote, but it's probably going to be a full, full published book. But yeah, this guy kind of said to me, like, oh yes, I've written books. And he's like, five books, and it's like, oh, cool. Like, well, yeah, oh, amazing, yeah, we're published. Like, oh, I'm and I'm going to do this, and I'm going to do that, and I kind of, and we were standing at a book launch and like, it's going to be in two months, and I had very painfully finished the manuscript and they wanted going. It felt a little bit like a kick in the teeth. So I think if support your dreams, and I support people saying it, but it's like, also just record like, that's why authors who finished and have been so supportive, because they know, and they're like, oh, strap in. All right, I'm here for you. Yeah, yeah. I don't want to be discouraging. Whenever somebody tells me that, I ask them all about it, I say, Oh, that's great. That's fabulous. We have a big conversation about it. But you know, I know from experience that most people who have that conversation with, you know, they say to me things like, Oh, I'll send it to you in three months, or I'll send it to you in six months. And of course, I never hear from them. So

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that's not to be discouraging, you know, get out there and write a book. It's a fabulous thing to do, but just saying you're going to write a book, you know, is not going to get you very far. You've got to, got to actually sit down and put the hours in. Put the hours into the keyboard. But I think it's understanding reality too. And I think, you know, there is a challenge in the you know that there is this thing where AI and that is is problem, but also there, there is a thing in my in my industry, which is the coaching industry, and in the business world, which you have an awards for, where there is this promotion to write a book, to be a thought leader, to be an authority. And the message from some coaches is, just write a book. Yeah, like, basically, just write any book so you can say you're an author, or participate in a book so that you say you're an author. And for me, it wasn't about saying, like you saw, if anyone has seen, if you want to see it, watch my unboxing video. Yeah. What it means yes, to me to be a published author, and it was a title that I and published author, I say, okay, very because to me, hold like I could have written an ebook. But for me, holding the book was so important.

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I think even seeing the cover was one thing, but opening it and seeing my words laid out like, and I saw the whole, you know, the PDF, but it just, it was nothing, the actual printed book in your hands. Yeah, I still get excited about it. I love it the day the book's printed, like I sit here at my desk and I see the the delivery guy pull up out the front, out the window here. Well, I hope the books are here like you still get excited about it, but to go back to what you were saying about, you know, it's, you know, it is easy to produce a book these days. It's easy to produce a bad book. So if you want to use AI to write your book, good luck to you. It's not going to be a good book. Be a good book. I think AI is going to wipe out pretty much every job in the planet in the next 20 years or so. But it's not there yet. It's still, it's still producing pretty average books. Any experienced editor I've been editing for 20 something years, if I'm working on a book, I can spot in two seconds when the when the author has gone, I'll just use AI, and I'll drop in a couple of paragraphs from Ai. Nobody will notice. You notice in two seconds, you can produce, you know, ebooks cheaply these days. You can do all that sort of stuff. And you know, if people do that, you know, good luck to you. I hope it works out. But the focus on producing a really high quality.

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Book, which is obviously what you did, and that's what we do. You really see the difference in that when the authors start getting out into the world, and the credibility you have having a well produced, well printed, well written book,

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you know, it's much more than just ticking the box of going, Oh, I, you know, I'm an author, congratulations.

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Do I actually read your book and think it's a fabulous book, and if I read it and think of this as a cheap piece of rubbish you did with AI and produced for for $100 I'm going to think that's how you do everything, and I'm not really going to have that that respect for you, and compared to if you produced a really high quality book. So there is definitely a big difference there with those two ends of the spectrum. Yeah. And when you talked about, we talked about the spectrum before, and I was going to say, it's like, going to say, it's like, and it's something that I noticed when I was very excited watching the Abba the Business Awards, and look forward to submitting this year. But was that you said, like, people can't tell the difference. You should not like, I look when I founded endemics, which is another, you know, emotional moment, very, very, very emotional, getting that into not only a bookshop. So I thought I'd seen a bookshop, but I would be a little pokey little friends bookshop, you know, somewhere, not the largest bookstore in Queensland,

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you know, on the shelf. I had to look for it because it fit in, you know, like it looked like a book that was it looked like a book that I have read over the years, that I would buy that to that caliber, and because I waited so long if I wanted to just do a book, I done it five years ago, as I said, I was working, but it wasn't. I knew even then it wasn't going to be the book that would stand up against those. And I think that's the benefit. Now, like Self Publishers can, right, look, you know, look as good as the traditional ones. You can't take, no, yeah, absolutely you can. So 15 years ago, you could spot a self published book a mile away. They just weren't as good. You know, the colors weren't as good, the printing wasn't as good, the editing wasn't as good. These days. I would put a put our books next to penguin Wiley any day of the week. The reason we can do that is we literally use the same people as let's just use John Wiley and Sons as an example. We use the same editors, the same designers.

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The biggest difference these days is the quality of the printing. That's one of the major differences. Back when I started out in publishing, sounding like an old man,

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you literally couldn't get 200 copies of a book that were well printed, small print runs that they were just rubbish. They were cheap and nasty. These days, like everything, it's all gone digital. Everything's, you know, involved with book production these days is digital until the actual printing Digital Press is digital printing, you can produce a book that's the same quality as the major printers who print, you know, 30,000 copies for penguin so and your book's a perfect example, Emma, if I stuck a little penguin logo on the spine and show to somebody that they Believe it, it's it's something you just couldn't do 15 years ago, if you have the right people helping you. And I think some people were a little bit surprised when my book came out, because I think they are conditioned a little bit to these. Again, I'm going to circle out the business industry and the coaching industry. I think they thought it was going to be one of those thin and what I was told is that 45,000 words, 50,000 words, is a book. Now I get to you with 92,000 words, and we got it done 70 something, but I knew mine was going to be about 300 pages, because I knew what needed to go in. And it wasn't just words. For the sake of words, I knew the story needed to say and that, you know, I couldn't do that in 120 pages. But people used to seeing these sort of thinner

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business Exactly, yeah, because they are like, yeah, like we said before, they're so cheap and easy to produce these days, but they don't give you the credibility that you're getting. And we were talking before we started recording about all the people you're talking to are saying they're reading your book and how excited they are. That's because it's a really good book, they don't know or care, you know, the like, if you publish it with Penguin or Wiley or whoever, they don't care about that stuff. They just care that they've got your book in their hands, and it's really, really good. So, you know, compared to that someone who, who did it, you know, cheap and nasty, and it's 15,000 words and it's printed at office works, you know, you just don't get the same response at all, which, to be honest, is not cheap. I printed a copy for my aunt.

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My aunt is 94 and so my cousin is over 100 and I wanted them to have a copy, so I went and printed them. It cost me $50 to print the book, so don't print it off. Bible gets much better rates for me. But anyway, but the other thing, yeah, I think one of the things, one of the Lovell compliments I got, and I shared you, shared it to you, was that was the feel of the book. So

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all of it adds together, and I knew that it was like the cover has to match the content, the feel of the cover. So I got a map cover.

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Up because it needed to have that elevated, luxurious, yeah, quality, you know, this gorgeous, the whole thing, oh, thank you. But then the weight, in terms of like, it feels, not that it's too fat, but it feels like a book. And then the layout, and I know that I this was a real thing that we talked about, and ease of read, so the dot points, the

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making sure that you know that you're in a different section, like the case study, is going to be treated differently to the chapter pages, because I know that. And I had a pile of books, and I sent a bunch of photos to Michael on the team, the books that I've enjoyed reading. And I was like, I'm writing about running a business, being a mum, having this live, I need a book that is easily accessible for them as well. But there's nothing worse than you are. You're reading a book and it's so poorly laid out, the font is not good the page in it actually, it does affect your reading, enjoying experience and sometimes too hard to read that you put it down, even though they're good, but it's, it's just too hard. Yeah, definitely, yeah, you're absolutely spot on. All of that stuff adds up, and it's all that stuff that most people probably don't even consciously think about. But as a reader, you know when it's done well and you know when it's done badly, like, I just can't stand reading a badly formatted book, and it's, it's, I always compare it to like umpires in sport. Nobody notices when the referee leaves a game going, Oh, the referee was fabulous. But you notice when it was bad. Everybody complains about the referees. So book layouts kind of like that. When it's good, you just enjoy the book. You don't say, Oh, that was good because the font was good, or the layout was good, you just enjoy the book. But when it's bad, you know why it's bad? You're like, oh, I can't read this. I can't find stuff. It looks terrible. So yeah, all of that stuff adds up to it doesn't matter how good your content is, and obviously your content is fantastic, but it doesn't matter how good your content is. If that stuff's all done poorly, people aren't going to enjoy the book at all. Yeah, and it's such a shame you put so much into it. And this was, this is where I'll just challenge I will challenge you once these that you said writing is the hard bit, and I agree in that there's some dark notes of the soul and

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some, yeah, sitting down to write and getting that manuscript. And I, unfortunately, I tell anyone now, like the lovely guidance I got was, the first draft is for you. The first manuscript is for you. The first second, third are for you. And so writing it, when I got that advice, it helped me to move through, and I was very, very proud, and to print that first initial, not edited, and give it to my aunt. Was was lovely, and I will always have that. But I didn't get to hold on to that moment for very long. That is a big moment, because we then went into, very quickly, into a very pressure cooker. Yeah, when I met Michael, we had a hiccup, and I had an emergency need for a publisher, and so unfortunately, I didn't get to have that moment. So I really tell people who are writing book to celebrate, because, as you said, it is a huge thing. But for me, and through no fold of Michael's, I sing their praises. But for me, this is why I talk about that real clarification between writing and publishing. I knew what was involved, but I also had no idea, like, what we just talked about, all those decisions. Like, the decision fatigue was insane, like, and we were the cookers. We were making those decisions. Like, and it was really like, if you don't write back today, we won't print on time. So unfortunately, that will talk about timeline. But for me, the publishing like, I just think I do not know, like, and I'm so glad of all the decisions we made, and you know that was so important. But I think people so don't realize what like we said, like this write a book. No.

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So, yeah, no, it is.

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Publishing is a complicated process. Obviously, if you hire the right people, it should all go smoothly. Just to give your listeners an idea of what they should be doing if they are writing a book, you should be starting to look at your publishing options while you're writing.

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So what you don't want to do is get to the end of the writing process, because a lot of decisions are involved, a lot of homework. You got to find the right company to work with all that kind of stuff. And if you wait until Okay, I'll finish my manuscript. Today, I'm going to start looking at all that stuff, that stuff can take you a month or two to sort out. So that's that's pushing your deadline back a couple of months. What you can do is, and we have a lot of people do this,

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they ring us up while they're writing. So they ring me up and say, Hi, I'm halfway through my first draft. Can we talk about publishing? And that's fabulous when people do that because,

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because they like so they can get all their ducks in a row while they're writing, and then when their manuscripts finished, they can, you know, they can pick up the publishing process. So you can finish your manuscript on Friday and start the publishing process on Monday. Call.

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Kind of thing. So obviously, due to some circumstances, that didn't happen at your end.

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But you know when you So, when you came to us, it was a very tight schedule, that is, that is unusual. I think I remember saying that to you right at the start. We, we basically did sort of three and a half months worth of work in two months, which, which was, which was challenging. The book's fabulous, yep, so, but that is an unusual and unusual circumstance. Obviously,

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you know, most of the time it is, you know kind of look when you're publishing for your business, the timeline is important, because obviously, if it takes your book an extra two months to come out. That's the next two months you don't have in your business, your book, in your business, if you've written a novel or a poetry book or whatever, you probably don't care about those two months. It's probably something you've dreamed of doing since you're a kid. But the deadlines do become more important, and things do become a bit more pressurized when it's business related. We have a lot of authors to be honest, this happens on most books. If I say, Okay, we work out a schedule, and I say, Okay, your book's going to be published on the first of May, and then they say, Well, hang on, I've got an event two weeks before that. Can you get it done by then? Kind of thing. So there's, there's always kind of business related pressures, but yeah, like you say, enjoying getting to the end of the writing and enjoying it. It is an important step. Having written a book is a fabulous achievement, whether you have published it or not. Obviously, just the fact that you've written a book is something that's worth celebrating. So yeah, definitely, definitely enjoy that moment when you get there and deciding it's finished. And I think what I talking to Kath, my editor, who you connected with me, with and I'm forever grateful for because we had a beautiful working relationship. And again, could have been pretty yucky. I was actually most dreaded that process, and she made it wonderful, and we had a really great collaborative working relationship. And yeah, considering the time pressure, it could have been not nice, but we made it nice. And what my fear was that they were going to change my book, what? Yeah, make it better. And there's nothing in there that I I can't remember what's taken out. You know what I mean? Like I what she what we took out made sense, and still all makes it. And it's still me, and the tone is still everything is still me. I felt like I was going to get written out of the book. And now my fear, but if you have a good editor, which Michael knows many, then you will work with that. But I think also having you in the process earlier, having Kath in the process earlier, probably would have made some of the things in the way that I put the manuscript together. It probably been easier

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knowing what the final product would be. And now, like I know, in some ways, I know there'll be things that are different and more challenging knowing what I'm stepping into for a second book, but also in terms of knowing thinking now, I'm thinking right now, what content is going to go in, where it's going to sit, what it's going to look like before I'm even writing it. And so, yeah, formatting and go like I just dumped text.

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And second books are all like anything in life. Second books are always easier. It's interesting what you say. It's very much the editor's job.

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If you feel like your book doesn't sound like you anymore, that means your editor hasn't done a good job. Your editors just as interested as you are in producing a good book, so they are working with you to bring out the best in the book. And that's obviously what happened with Kath Kath, and obviously that worked really well for you, but it's knowing that now will help you with your second book, because you can see how it comes out at the other end. People who do need help during the writing stage, if you are writing a book and you are getting a bit stuck, you can actually get an editor on board during the writing stage if you wanted to, so they can, they can just read it for you. What we do this from time to time? It's not something we do that often, but occasionally, authors need help getting to the finish line with the manuscript, so an editor can just read it for you after the first draft and provide some advice, and then you go away and do another draft, that kind of thing. There are options available for people if they need that kind of help. Yeah, that's really great. And one of the things we will just finish off with is like the so the book, to get a book, we've talked about writing, writing. We talked about publishing. There's another piece of the pie, which is of the which is promotion and distribution. Yeah, absolutely. So we we break it down into three kind of major steps when we're talking about the whole end to end process of a book. So like, say, Writing, Publishing. So we do the middle step, and we help our authors with the last step as well. The last step is promotion and distribution. So again, you and I chatting about this offline, Emma,

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the book doesn't promote itself. So, you know, as you're doing all the right things, you're out there, you know, jumping up and down and waving the book around.

30:00

Under doing all the right things.

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It's like, if we all think back to the early days of the Internet, all those old enough to remember, people thought that setting up a website was all you had to do. Like, I set up a website and I've got a business. No, you set up a website and then you have to promote the website, send them to the website. Then people do the website exactly right. A book's the same thing. A book won't do the magic by itself. It's, without a doubt, the authors I see have the most success, and you're well on this path already, Emma, are the people, the people who are the word I use is active. You've got to be active your book. Okay, there's no there's no one solution. Like, people say, Oh, can you give me a tip? Like, what should I do, like, should I go on this social media platform? What should I go on that social media platform? What should I try and get on this TV show? There's no one right answer, because every book is different, every audience is different, every author is different.

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What you do, what happens? And we see this happen time and time and time again. We stay in contact with our authors after their books are published. So we know what they do they're up to is, you get out there and you start doing all this stuff, and your book will find its spot. So you'll, you know, you'll get three podcast appearances, and not much will happen. And then you'll get on the fourth podcast, and suddenly there's a really good response. So like, okay, that's where my audience is. It's all about being out there and being active. We've had authors who've had, you know, done a little speaking engagement at some small event, and there happened to be someone in the audience who's like, you know, running a big conference the next month, or something with, you know, 100,000 people. So that small appearance turned into a speaking gig at the big conference a month later, kind of thing. So it's all about getting out there, getting your book in as many hands as you possibly can again, like say, this is absolutely the stage you're at now, Emma, so

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so make sure you plan your book in those three steps, Writing, Publishing and promotion and distribution. The other thing to keep in mind is, like we talked about with the writing, you've got to focus on the promotion and the distribution while you're in the publishing stage. So don't leave it until the end. Again, same sort of thing with we talked about with the writing. Don't wait until the books are delivered on your doorstep and then say, Okay, now what am I going to do with it? Exactly right, that's too late, because, again, all this stuff takes a month or two just to get your ducks in a row and know what you're trying to do. So while your book is going through the publishing stage, while it's being edited, while your cover is being designed, that's when you've got to be focusing on, okay, what happens with my book when it's published? So I always say to authors when their book gets delivered, same sort of thing with the writing. Again, we just talked about that's the night. Pop a bottle of champagne, sit down and celebrate, because having your hands. It's very exciting. The next day, get up and start promoting it. So you get you get one evening to enjoy it, and then the next day you gotta get up and start the work all over again. So it is literally, didn't we Michael? Because Michael glad two days. But my book arrives 21st of August, and I rocked up at my launch on the 23rd of August. Thankfully, books in hand, but we that that's not the tightest deadline I've ever had. I once up books from an airport and drove straight to the book launch. They were printed interstate. Went from the airport straight to the book launch. So it was people push their lights sometimes. So I do not recommend that, but yeah, you even had them on the 19th. I think they got to my dad's house before I even and he didn't open them like so I wasn't even back in the country. I arrived back in the country and got my book. So yes, it was all pretty tight, but it all worked. So yeah, definitely. Very much. Again, just a tip for authors, think about every, every, whatever stage you're at, be thinking about the next stage at the same time so that you're ready to hit the ground running. When you get there, I'm going to ask my Do you have five more minutes? Because I got two more questions. Yeah, of course, go for it. Okay?

33:47

I tell people the time clearly I'm graded with timelines and deadlines, not

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distribution. I think it's one of the things that I would have, like, we had a strategy, but I was not really when, by the time you saw very quickly, not very clear on what that actually looked like. And I think it's a huge selling point. Michael, anyone I'm talking to about who they should work with, I said the fact that we got, again, the timeline was not really very kind. Usually said it's like four months, but we managed to get the distributor say, yes, they took 50 copies. We've sold now 53 so, and they actually ordered another 50, which was such, and that is how I saw my book in a bookshop, which is not everybody's priority. And I know for some people, like they're not even listening online, because that's not their priority, or their strategy. For me, holding my book was a really big thing, seeing my book in the bookshop, and my next one, which I know I was working on with Anna, I want to see it in the airport bookshop. That's my other Yeah, one, one airport, one airport. But distribution people don't no idea. No. So.

35:00

So distribution. The first thing I ask authors, whenever they ask me a question, if they ask me about printing or cover design or editing or whatever it is, I always go back a couple of steps. They say to me, Oh, should I do bookshop distribution? And so the thing I do is go back a couple steps and say, Well, what are your aims for your book? Some authors, bookshop distribution is definitely a really good option. It's, obviously it's, it's paying off for you. For some authors, it's not the right option. So especially again, come coming back to your publishing this book for your business, which you know, 97% of the authors we work with, that's exactly what they're doing.

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Some strategies are we had an author

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who was a real estate agent about 18 months ago, and he printed, I think it was 1000 books off the top of my head, he was going to leave a copy just on the kitchen bench in every house he went to for a year. So he didn't need bookshop distribution. So it's all about what your plan is. So bookshop distribution is something to think about and again, see if it works in with your strategy. If your aim is to get absolutely as wide a reach for your book as you possibly can, then you, of course, you need bookshop distribution because that's a really good option. But like so, if you have a very specific plan, like I say this, this real estate author I mentioned bookshop distribution, just a waste of time and money for him. He wasn't it wasn't going to work. So So have a think about why. Obviously, you can get your book online as a print book, an e book and an audio book these days. Audio is growing a lot at the moment, so you need to look at all of those different options, whoever you're working with. So a lot of self publishing companies like us actually don't offer bookshop distribution, so it's something you really need to investigate if you do want to do it.

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So we the distributor. We work with. It's one of the major, mid sized distributors in Australia. They distribute to, I never say 100% because you can't say 100% but they distribute to 97% of bookstores in Australia. So if that is something you're interested in, you've got to check out the people you're working with and make sure you can actually do it. There's no right or wrong answer, like say, again, it's back to what you're trying to do. So again, like say, just to summarize for people, you've basically got bookshops, audiobook, ebook, print, book, and then you've got your own, you know, the author, doing their own distribution. So like, you know, going to conferences, you know, like you've been talking about running retreats, all that kind of stuff. So again, the thing to do is go back a few steps and say, Okay, what am I trying to do with my book? And then from there, talk to whoever you're working with. So again, like we did at the beginning, we always have detailed conversations. I have, like, half an hour, 45 minute conversations with authors before they've even signed up with us, and we start working with stuff out. Okay, what are you trying to do with your book? That if they say this and this and this, then we say, okay, bookshop distribution is a good idea for you. Or, again, that real estate guy said, I'm doing this and this and this. Okay, you don't need bookshop distribution. So make sure you go back a few steps, trying to decide what you're actually doing with your book, and then working out what the best distribution options are for you. Oh, look. And by far, I mean people, it's really lovely. And I do ask people now knowing, and I knew I've known for a while what I asked, what is the best place for me to buy your book? And people, very kindly did that to me when I was selling initially to where is the best place for me to buy? And initially, I said me financially better, but quickly realized socially overseas, I said it's actually better for you, better for me, if you just buy through Amazon

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or your chosen online distributor that we've got lots of there's way more than Amazon people you know,

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or if you want it now, if you want it today, ebook, you know, it'll be on your reader. And for me, the next goal is audible, but, like, just, it just didn't, I really, and again, it's a choice, but I really, I love listening to books, and I've had requests for it, and it is something, but it's, it's another cost, it's another time investment, and the whole whole separate process of it on its own. We do have a lot of authors who do the audiobook sort of three or six months down the track. To be honest, most of the time it is because just so many people have asked them about it, and they're like, I've gotta do an audio book, because people keep asking me. So a lot of people, I like, say the time and financial investment, they do do that a little bit down the track, and energy wise. So I have a my friend, an audio producer, and she just said, Emma, like, where you were, like, it's, I know you I know it's not, it's not going to be like, because it takes, it's a lot of talking, and it's a lot of and I want them to feel that too, and to be able to, you know, it's quite emotive bits in my book, so that might be challenging for you to say out loud. And then, you know, again, then we need to and then it's good again. It gives it another boost promotionally, but it also in the second wind. But like, you don't want to be doing this again in a few years. Like, yeah. Do it. Do it once. Do it properly. Do it to the close.

40:00

Quality into the caliber of everything else you're doing. And so that's why we've taken a bit more time. Yeah, exactly right. The the audio book company we work with, they usually only do three or four hours of recording a day, because they find that if I mean, you know who wants to, you know who can talk for eight hours, like you just going to sound tired and and worn out by the end of it. So it is. It's just a challenge from that point of view as well. Yeah,

40:25

Michael, I could talk to you all day, and I've no doubt we'll have at least five more emails for you by the end of the week.

40:32

Very good speaking terms. But I am so grateful for everything you helped with I do have a question that is in line with the book, and I ask every guest is, how are you living a life you love now?

40:46

Yeah, so this is, this is an interesting question. I always I've run my own business for 23 years, or something like that. My main aim is, I gave up a long time ago on the work life balance thing, because everybody who runs their own business knows that's just an absolute myth. I've never met a single person who said they can do

41:07

that. The thing I aim for these days is the flexibility of running your own business. So that's not the same thing as balance.

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Because, you know, there are times when you have to lean heavily towards work to get things done. We all we all know that. But then there are also times when you can lean more towards, you know, doing your personal stuff. So So for me, it's about like this long weekend just gone. I actually worked a fair bit of the day on on Saturday because I've gotta have an edit that I've gotta finish by this Friday. So I just spent a few hours on Saturday just to make sure that it's all all sorted out by Friday. So, but then, what am I doing three weeks time? If my Friday is looking a bit quieter, I'll knock off at lunchtime, kind of thing. So, so that's what it's all about for me. Like, say, I don't use the word balance, because that's not, you know, that's very hard to achieve. So I love being able to, like, I say when, when you see a bit of time in your calendar ahead to block that in as I'm going to take that afternoon off, or even that day off, if you're lucky, being able to schedule your own holidays when you want to is fabulous. I've got to go to got to take your advice and start building and travel for work and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, for me, it's for me, it's the flexibility of being able to, you know, come and go as I please. Basically, I love it, and you're extremely good at what you do. Michael, I wish I'd known a couple of the people who've published books. If I had, I realized it was through you that it would have been an even quicker, yes, than it was, that you've produced some amazing works and works with people that I have very high regard for, but yeah, forever thankful that we got my book, not only out into the world, but on time, and I got to show up at my launch holding that gorgeous book. So thank you. I recommend you to everyone how we greatly appreciate that. And how can people find you? How can we connect with you? Just online. So publish central.com today. You. So there's all sorts of information about our services on there, and you can there's a booking form there as well, if you want to schedule a phone call, a zoom call these days with me. Yeah, just publish central.com is the best way to find us amazing. And I'm probably going to do it somewhere else in the episode, but I'm going to shamelessly plug that I have just launched a I'm loving this world so much. I've just launched a the aspirational authors retreat, so helping other people to get on this journey. And I have been asked, am I going to go and help, like, do stuff in the book world now? And I'm like, Absolutely not. I will just point you in the direction of amazing people like Michael, like Cath Walters, like Anna Featherston, who I'm hosting with, and what we want to just give the our experience and and have a container where people can come and learn these things and have these discussions and put to set them up in the best position they can to make sure that they do not only get their book out into the world, but they have the best success possible with their book. And having those other authors, and now being in this world where I know the people, that was a huge benefit as well. So bringing people together, I think, and I know that you, you've worked with on these sorts of things as well, like knowing other people on the journey, it's really important, because it's you don't know it unless you've been through it exactly right? It's like anything in life. Being around people who've done it before is massively helpful. I think what you and Anna and obviously Anna Featherstone is an absolute fountain of publishing wisdom. So yeah, people get a lot out of all those retreats that you're doing. Thank you so much. Michael, all right, we'll put all the links in the show notes and everything, and thank you again. And can't wait to do my next book. Excellent. Looking forward to it. Thanks. LOVE having

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Emma. Thank you for listening. Lovely one. I hope this has inspired you to dream big and start creating a life you love today, if you love what you.

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Hearing, don't forget to follow and rate on Spotify and rate review and subscribe on iTunes. It helps other awesome people to find this podcast and get motivated and inspired as well. Want to stay connected, come and join the live a life you love. Group on Facebook or connect with me on Instagram. Emma lovell.au the same as my website, but all the details are in the show notes. Lovely. I'll see you next episode for more inspiration, motivation and freedom seeking. Now go out there and live a life you love. You.