Money Mindset with Denise Duffield-Thomas

#124 - Denise Duffield-Thomas (EDITED)

Tue, Mar 18, 2025 7:53AM • 54:49

00:00

Emma, do you want to live a life of freedom and adventure? Are you wanting more than the daily grind? Me too. Welcome to the Emma Lovell, show a place where we talk about living a life you love. Now I'm your host, Emma Lovell, and my number one value is freedom. I've spent the last 14 years running a business and traveling the world, and now I take my husband and toddler along for the adventure too. It's possible, and I know you can create a life doing what you truly love as well. This podcast will inspire, motivate and encourage you to go after your dreams, to create a life you love and to live it now, not wait for a time and or someday in the future, I'll be sharing episodes weekly about how I harmonize business travel and self care. I'll also bring on incredible guests to share their journeys, the wins, the challenges, and how they're creating a life they love. Let's jump in and get dreaming. This is a space for you to manifest a life you love.

01:03

I would like to acknowledge and recognize Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as the first peoples of this place, now known as Australia. I am grateful for the continuing care of the land, waterways and skies where I work, live, listen, learn and play from here on, you can bear country and from wherever you are listening, I pay my respects to the elders past and present.

01:25

Welcome to today's episode. I am beyond excited. This is one that's been in the making for a long time, and I will try to keep it cool and not fan girl totally, but my money mindset mentor, Denise Duffield Thomas is the guest today. Denise. I have been in Denise's world for six years and in her programs for about three but I'm now very proud to call Denise a friend, and we get to hang out and manifest together. But I will give you the formal intro. She is a money mentor for the new wave of online entrepreneurs who want to make money and change the world. She helps entrepreneurs like you to charge premium prices, release the fear of money and create first class lives. Her books, lucky bitch get rich. Lucky Bitch and her newest chill and prosper give a fresh and funny roadmap to living a life of abundance without burnout. Her money boot camp has helped more than 8500 students from all over the world. She declares that she's a lazy introvert, a Hay House author and an unbusy mother of three. She owns a rose farm and lives by the beach in sunny Australia. I have been to the Rose farm, and I've also been to hang out with Denise at her house in in Australia as well, so feel very honored to share that with her. Today. We go on many a tangent and just really talk about money mindset and the growth and changes that we've both had over the last few years, and why your money mindset is so important into your both your personal and your business life. I hope that you get as many valuable insights from this conversation as I did. I feel incredibly grateful, and gratitude is a huge part of manifesting and attracting more of what you want. So opening with gratitude and here, please do enjoy listening to brilliant Denise darkfield Thomas,

03:18

welcome to the podcast. Today. I am beyond delighted to have on the episode today one of my mentors and we have become friends, which is so beautiful. Thank you so much for coming here today. Denise, oh my god. Thank you so much for asking me. So I do all of my podcast interviews in one go. And so last night, I was like, Oh, I better just have a look at my calendar and see if there's any you know that I need to do anything special for. And I was like, Oh yeah, get stuck to Emma tomorrow. That's exciting. So you're my fourth interview of the day. I've got one more after this. Yeah, oh my God, you're an early riser. It's like, for me, I'm like, You're lucky I made it to the desk. So well done, and you look fabulous. Denise, well, actually, sorry I was going to say because I have all my Blazers down there, and I had, like, you know, like, a blue one, and then, you know, and I was like, put my navy one on. I was like, no boring Navy one for Emma. So I went to my closet, and I was like, Okay, this would be better for Emma. Well, that's funny, because I put on a white t shirt. I was wearing a Flora orange one. But I was like, I'll put on a white t shirt and, like, my earrings, because I'm trying to be like my stylist, you know, like, what would my stylist do? But also I'm like, and it's way too hot for sequence. Otherwise I'd be in sequence. But so we're getting Alchemist romantic vibes today from you. Yes, um. Denise Duffield Thomas, please tell us in your words, who are you? Yes. So I am a money mentor for mostly women, but mostly entrepreneurs who want to make money and change the world, but know that there is something stopping them. They're self aware enough to go I have some mindset issues that maybe I need to deal with, and that is my job to create safe spaces for us to ex.

05:00

Explore and figure out how we can overcome some of those mindset Gremlins that stop us from starting a business, charging what we're worth, increasing our prices, but also just having conversations about money with our clients. And the benefit of that is that we can create these amazing, abundant first class lives that work for ourselves so we can show up and serve our communities in whatever way we're meant to be. I love it. And what I was just saying to you before was I just I think I'm coming at it from a business lens, and often you work with people who in business but didn't realize how powerful it would be on the personal side, and how much the personal stuff. And we know that now. We know you can't just leave your personality at the door, like if, if stuff's going on in your personal life or from any time in your past, it's going to impact your business, it's going to impact your future. I just just couldn't believe the layers that were there and the layers that continue to be there. So this work is

05:59

ongoing. It really is, and I'm always surprised at that too, every month in Money Boot Camp, when we have our calls, you know, I've prepared and, you know, we've talked, we talk about something that's in the course, but I always find a new nuance. There's always a new layer. And, you know, I'm 13 years into teaching this full time, and I feel like I'm more of a student than ever before, because there's just so much, you know, and when we can come in it from a place of curiosity, there's nothing bad, there's nothing wrong. And also, I realize now there's no final destination for this stuff, right?

06:36

That was something that I was thinking, it was a question I was going to talk to you about, and it's something that I I'm working on, and I think it's part of my profile, but, um, the I've made it like getting there. Like, when do you get there? Look at someone like Oprah, or even our beautiful Leonie Dawson, came into my inbox this morning, and I'm like, you've made millions. Like, millions, probably Oprah, billions. Like, when do you stop? And I know that, you know leonie's thing at the moment is creative Goddess, and I just went to see Liz Gilbert speak. And I know that I'm a creator too, and I don't want to ever stop creating, but I still have this belief that someday I'll sort out all my shit money will just be there, I'll have made it. And I'm like, done. Yeah, it's,

07:23

I have a Liz Gilbert story that I have to come back to. Let's circle back on that. But

07:28

I feel the same way around organizations sometimes, and I feel like it's this real trap of going when I'm organized, then I'll feel better, or when you know this big project's over, then I'll feel better. When I've made the money or feel better, and it's a real trap to fall into. And I can see where people get out of balance,

07:48

you know, from a money and success point of view, right? Because it's never enough. It's never good enough, it never feels enough. And so there's a real fine line, I think, in personal development, of striving for more and knowing that we can do more, but also feeling content where we are and feeling like there's nothing wrong. And it it can be hard to do that dance when you do have big desires sometimes,

08:15

but there is definitely, there's no destination and there's no there. And I think sometimes we separate ourselves. It's like we think, well, there's me, and then there's this perfect version of myself, but we're just creating this like unattainable version, because we always think that that successful version of ourselves is perfect in Word, thought and deed, and we're never going to be that. We're never going to be it. So we kind of sometimes then push away that future.

08:44

Yes, I was literally drove back from Sydney yesterday, got back, talked to my husband, ruminating the whole time, so that was a lovely thing for him to come to but and I did, it's never enough. It's never going to be enough. I've done these awesome things. I'm kicking goals. I can acknowledge that, but it's still not enough. Like, when do I get there? I was like,

09:06

and so yeah, and then I got the card. You made these beautiful cards that I got at your rose farm. Well, no, I didn't. I asked you for them. They'll receive. It says it's safe for me to release and let go. And so I think what's coming up these last few days is like, let go of that. And, yeah, find this, which I talk about, I talk about, you gotta be reminded of your own stuff, right? Yeah, boy. Now enjoy what you're creating, but still strive. But you gotta enjoy the now, because otherwise, like, Gosh, what a horrible feeling to always be chasing.

09:38

Yeah, it is. It's that hungry ghost thing, right? And it's like, you're hungry, but if you're a ghost, you can't eat. So it's that, always that dissatisfied feeling. But also, I think too, if you're starting your business, to overcome something which I see a lot of people do and myself, I'm the same too. I'm like, I want that financial independence.

10:00

Never want to be controlled. It it takes a while for your nervous system to catch up with that. And I felt like I was still kind of running and feeling like I've got to do it because I'm going to be, you know, homeless on the street. And it's like, no, you're actually not. It's It's okay. And I've had to really sit with that feeling, especially on the weekends or even on, like a random Monday where I don't have anything scheduled, and I was sitting and watching a TV show and cross stitching, and I had to really deal with that guilt feeling of like I should be I should be doing something, I should be doing something. And it's a really hard habit to get out of, and that's why, you see, then people in the world who are destroying the planet, because it's never, ever enough, and they don't know how to sit in that discomfort. And I think, I think women are better at it, but I still see everyone. I know we're still feeling that way of you know, I should be doing something. I should be doing something. What can I how can I be more efficient? How can I serve more people? I should be writing my book. I should be writing my screenplay. And it's like, okay, alright, chill, chill, a little bit. Something I say to myself sometimes is, there's time,

11:06

there's time, there's time,

11:09

but it's always finding the balance right. Because then I've had this, you know, sabbatical for about 18 months, and I was getting all these messages, like I had a psychic reading with someone. She's like, Metatron, saying you've got to get back to work. Because Metatron is like, you know, the angel of I think work or something. And I'm like, so I've got went too far out of balance, right? Of going, Well, I'm not going to do anything. And then it's like, okay, well, what? What's the balance? And I think that's a trick. It's a tricky thing for us. It's always there. And I think I'm going to come, I want to come. I want to go to your Liz Gilbert story. But I think that's beyond retreats. Is the like, you see the people trying to encourage people at retreats. It's like, no, we've got this. We're serving you like, you get to just be there. And they're like, can I help with the dishes? You're like, no, can I do this? You're like, I just, what I need you to do is sit down and be in the session and be here. That's all I am that person. I go do the dishes

12:03

at a retreat because I think too I'm an introvert, so sometimes I'm like, I'm just going to go into the kitchen and just be away.

12:11

But it is hard for us to to experience that. And I'm so glad you said that about retreats, because I remember I went to retreat with Julie Parker and Sora. Sora, no, I think her name is, her name is now, but

12:25

it was such a big experience for me, because they were so spacious with their agenda. And I remember they were like, this girl. So we had like, you know, the morning session, go have a nap. And I was like, What do you mean? And I just like, read a whole book in that afternoon, I still feel like there was so many things in that retreat, like I didn't come away thinking, oh God, they really skimped, like there was so much stuff. But it was richer because it had the spaciousness, um, and even one of the afternoons, they're like, Oh, if you want to go into town, like, what, what am I allowed to be this spacious? It was really, really eye opening. I think for me, that's, yeah, yeah. It's something that's the biggest lesson. I took one of that that from you. Liz Gilbert, tell me what was your Oh, my God, okay. It was really, it was quite embarrassing. I think you would have done the exact same thing as me. So I think you were late, right? So I went to a

13:24

retreat in Fiji, and she was the guest speaker.

13:29

And I get a bit weird. I get really fan girly and weird with famous people. Okay, so don't laugh, because I know you've said this, but and like you've said to me, I don't want to fan girl. You're not like I've done awkward, worse things, right? So I saw her, and she was just so nice. She was like, Oh, hey everyone, how's it going? And I was like, Is it really weird having all these people come up to you and being like, I love you so much. You're amazing. And she was like, No, it's It's lovely. And I was like, okay, cool. Um. And then she did this workshop, and she said, I want you to write a letter to fear, and like, all the worst things you can imagine happening.

14:06

And so we're sitting there writing, and

14:11

mine was about like, Oh my God, it was so it was so great. She's walking around and she's like, she came up to me and my partner, she's like, Would you read yours out? And my partner was like, Oh, I'm just really worried. Like, it was just like an imposter syndrome thing. It was quite general. And then she's like, what about you? And I went,

14:29

Okay. And I was like,

14:32

alright. So I'm really fearful that I'm going to write this best selling book and it's going to turn into a movie, and I'm going to have to go to the premiers, and everyone's going to be like, fangirling me. And it was so embarrassing. She was like, okay, and then she went, because it was so all the stuff that you've talked about, right? And it was so big and wild and abundant, and I felt like such an arrogant asshole talking about it out loud. And she was like, I love it. I love it. And then she was like, Do you mind, though?

15:00

If I use your partner as the example on stage, because it might be a little bit more relatable. Because it was

15:06

like, I'm gonna make millions of dollars out of it, and then I'm gonna, I'm gonna, like, lose it all. And she was just like, oh,

15:14

but, like, yeah, not and, but it is a fear like that is something that you've, I know you talked about and that, you know, I've dealt with it with my Kinesiologist. I have a fear of happiness or a fear of making it like, she's like, you're not allowing yourself, like, I I'm the one holding me back. And I got this thing a few years ago. There was a psychic at a conference I was at, and she's like, let it go. Like, let go of the things that people you think people are saying about you, like no one's saying it. And even these last 10 days, we've just had the cyclone, and I kept thinking, people back here, we're going to say, Well, you're not here so, so you can't talk about it. But nobody did. Everyone here was like, Emma, stay away. Like we're so glad you're not here. Like it's good, you're safe. Everyone was so kind. People in who are in Cairns were like, oh gosh. Like, can we help you? We'll tell you all the things. Like, everyone's just lovely and kind. But my thing was, someone's going to be like, you're not allowed, or, How dare you. And it's like, isn't saying How dare you is me.

16:16

You know, at the Oscar It was so good, like, so you hope Denise hosts this Oscars party, which was such a really special thing to do. We went to a cinema. We all got dressed up, we sat together, and we really sat there and watched and absorbed it all. But what you've taught me, and I've been doing more, is like, you know, ask and you shall receive, and say out loud what you want. And so I said to you, knowing that you have big dreams, too, I was like, I want to write one. I want one of my books to be an adapted screenplay, and I want to go the Oscars for writing an adapted screenplay and win an Oscar. Well, I I want to win, yeah, why not? And you said, Me too. And we were standing there in front of these Oscars, like, you know,

16:57

models, and it was like, why not? Why not say that? And, but, you know, but it's then there is a, still, a fear. Well, even me saying, Oh, I don't care about winning. And then I was like, Why did I say that? Why not? Why not win? And also those you, you're like, Oh, well, let's not do it in the same year. And then I realized, I was like, actually, mine's not going to be in my book. So I can win for original screenplay, and you can win for adapted, and we can go together, and it would be so fun.

17:26

And I also think there's something in that too of going,

17:32

am I opening up all these loops in my brain? Right? Because when you're a creative person, you can sometimes live too many lives in one go. And I think that sometimes adds to that conflicting, never enough thing, because you're like, Well, I'm supposed to be a screenwriter and an author and a mum and a blah blah, and we're trying to live all of them. So I'm trying to hold things like that very lightly, knowing that the phase of life that I'm in is not super conducive to being very, very prolific, let's say in writing. But I know that this is such a short window of life when my kids are small and I'm like, Why do I think that I'm not going to be productive and prolific in my 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, and why do I have the scarcity around my time and my creativity, that it's a finite resource. So I I'm always like thinking about things like that too.

18:27

Of going, Yeah, I can have that dream. But you know what? It's not a super active dream right now. So don't make it a to do in my mind. Does that make sense? Yeah? Well, that was my book. You know, I wanted to write my book since I was 19, and there were years where I felt behind, and then I had a human design reading and a psychic reading over the years that confirmed I was the book was coming. And people have told me, like, you should write a book. And I was like, it's coming, I know, like, it's absolutely going to happen. It took 18 years, and it's, and it's,

18:55

it's, it's happened. It's physical. I'm holding it in my hand well, and I committed to it at the Rose farm, like, because there's a point where, like, there's the the wanting and the desiring and the thinking, but at some point you have to make the commitment. And I was at the Rose farm at the retreat, and, you know, sitting with someone whose books I've read and admire. And you know, another one of the members was retreat attendees, was talking about writing a book. And you know, hers came out in June, and mine came out in August. So we set that desire in August, 2023 and come August,

19:30

2024

19:31

so one year later, one year like people ask how long it takes? And I say, one year. Like the writing bit didn't take a year. The process took a year? Yeah, I often think, too it's about nine months to a year, because it is a baby, like it is a it's birthing something.

19:49

And when people say, How long does it take to write it, I go, that's actually irrelevant. Like you could write it in a weekend, but the whole process and going, it's the birthing of it is the thing that.

20:00

Takes the time and that people focus so much on the birth it's the same thing with the book. They focus so much on one element of it. And there's a brilliant book. Look, it's your book by Anna Featherston, and we are hosting the author's retreat at the beautiful rose farm, and her book is so helpful. And like literally, can see percentage wise about writing is like, 15% of the book, like, maybe 20, like, there's a big chunk on editing, there's a big chunk on finding your publisher. And then I'd say 30, 40% of the book is marketing the book. Like, yeah, it's come and so I was very fortunate to be told years ago, it's a one to two year journey. And so I'm like, when the book came out, I'm like, I'm not even I'm halfway like, like, I was like, yes, yay, celebrate. But it's like, there's so much more to come of this. And then what's been so lovely, and I don't see you still sharing. You know, years after people reading your books, is that thing where people go, Oh, I read your book, or your book did this, and it's like, you get to keep receiving that it's not just the launch party. It's like a gift just keeps on giving.

21:07

It really does. And if you go to any bookstore and look at, you know, the top books, some of them are decades old, and that's a really tricky thing. Sometimes when you're writing it, because you're trying to capture a moment in time. And I look back at my my first real book, Lucky Bitch, and it is due for a bit of a refresh, and I wanted to read you the cover, but I actually really want to try not to change the content so much, because it is a snapshot of time,

21:40

and I can't write that now from where I am, because it was all because it's about manifesting. And I feel like I was in a, like a, quite a naive in a good way place. And now I think I would bring a bit of cynicism to it, right? And so it, it exists as its own snapshot in time.

22:02

And that's good and bad, right? Because then you feel like every word has to be for the ages, but it really it can't be. It can't be, and that doesn't mean then you can't ever update them. You know, some of my books have gone through many updates, and actually it's so unusual in the publishing world, but when my book chillpreneur came out. I was very, very unhappy with the cover, and it caused me so much angst. And I remember, you know, it was my first time working with my publisher, even though they so it was a three book deal, but they bought my previously published books. So it was so out of my comfort zone to say I don't like the cover, like I pushed as much as I could, and they really advocated for it. So I remember sort of saying to universe, you know what, like, just let me do another edition soon. And this never, ever happens. But they contacted me like that book came out in 2019

22:55

they contacted me, like 2021 only two years later, and said, We'd love you to do a new edition, because it was kind of like pandemic time. They were like, we want to do a new edition. And would you be open to changing the name of the book? And I said, Yes, as long as you're happy to change the like, really change the cover. And they said yes or no. It was just one of those moments where I just went, Thank you universe, because it's so unheard of for people to be able to do that, and sometimes you just have to relax and let go. And I'll tell you another thing in letting go this the some people will scream when they hear this. When I got the edits back from the editor, I was already admired in

23:35

imposter syndrome, and when I sent it to them, I was just so worried they were going to send back and say, This is shit like we can't use any of this. And actually, all the edits that came back were very much because I write in very passive voice, and I've never, you know, had formal training in any of that stuff. So all their edits were very, pretty much just changing from passive to active voice. And so I went through the first chapter, and I was really struggling with doing it. And so I hit Accept all. Yeah, you told that helped me. You told me, yep, I hit Accept all. And then then I read through it, and I if there was anything, I went, Oh, that doesn't feel right. I went back to the track changes. But I was literally just like, I'm just going to let it go, because you realize too that the book becomes its own entity outside of you, and you can't, you can't take it personally, and it's never going to be, it's never going to be perfect. So yeah, that that felt really good, but also I just could sense in myself it was really triggering a lot of imposter syndrome for me and procrastination. And I just went, Okay, I'm just gonna

24:42

Yeah and hit accept. I don't trust that. Like they're that's their job as well. And like, I think I was so fiercely protective of the manuscript. And turns out it was kind of right. I was actually writing Money Boot Camp and sharing that I was having some issues with the team that I had, and I.

25:00

You know, my spidey sense grew off, but I was like, I was so in it, you know, it's such a big project, you're trying to trust that these people are going to help you. And so then

25:08

when some sort of stuff did hit the fan, or just a bit before that, actually, I was so scared about the editing. And I have a screenshot Denise from one of the Money Boot Camp calls, monthly calls, and I said I was scared about handing it over. And you were like, look, I'm going to give you a negative review. And you're like, Emma Lovell, your book is crap. You're a back writer. There's your negative review. And I was like, thank you. And I laughed, and it was funny, even though you couldn't see me, Denise does her calls and went wherever, and I screenshotted it was like, okay, cool. That's fun. Well, then I did the work with my Kinesiologist on it, and it was actually the negative review I was scared of was scared of was my own. Wasn't like, I haven't actually touched wood, hadn't like anyone give negative, bad feedback, but it was I was scared of not loving the book, and not being proud of the book, and it being and that's what the fear of handing the manuscript over was, that it was going to transform into something that wasn't me, and I was going to be taken out of the book. So when I got to work with this new team, and I worked with the editor, I couldn't believe how amazing I was. So scared of this, like, yeah, was bracing myself for all these red marks and stuff. And then she just made it better. Like, she just even gave nice like, she'd be like, Oh, this is funny, or let's ramp this up, or, how about we say it like this. It was just she made it better. And a good editor should make it better, and they should not all the really bits that I thought, Oh, I'll probably cut that. She didn't cut that, if anything, she added to some of those bits. So she really saw me and me, and so that was like, you know, now telling people who are writing books like you've, yeah, be protective and write your manuscript, but the moment you finish, then you have to let go. And I did the moment. I found

26:44

that's fine. They can cut that bit. You know, I think it is useful to have people read it and work with you. So I hired a book coach to help me write chillpreneur, which then became chill and prosper because I knew that that was my first time writing a book for a publisher. And I was like, I can't do it in two weeks and stress myself out, so I need that accountability, right? And what was fascinating is just having someone outside of myself, it made me feel very self conscious, because I was kind of like, I feel like I'm pretending to be a writer. And it just it felt so awkward. But having someone even just to say, hey, you started this story, but you didn't quite finish it. So what's the follow on from that? Or, you know, make this point, because, especially with my ADHD, I think I've made my point, but I really haven't, and I just trail off into random things. And she kept me, she kept me contained enough that I was like, Oh, okay. Because I'm I'm someone who, not only am I very introverted, I never watch my own videos, I never watch my like speaking gigs. And I've been like that since I was a kid. And even though I grew up as a performer and a dancer, I never liked watching myself. Or if someone would say, Oh, can I video? You know, I'd be like, No. And there's something about being seen this feels so vulnerable. And so even then, when people will say, Oh, I read your book and I love it, I'll be like, can we not I just like to pretend that this doesn't exist. Like, can we not talk about it, please. And recently, I was kind of like, do I have another book in me? I'm not sure. And, you know, and my books even relevant. And then I got a voice note from someone who is very successful billionaire, and you know, we've got, like, a little bit of a relationship, and I really look up to her, and she sent me a voice note. She goes, I recommended your book to someone who was having lots of money issues, and it really helped her. And it was like, this five minute voice note. And I just went, Oh, my God, I can't believe that came at that perfect time to realize again, you do have to let go and trust that your book will reach the people who need to hear that message where they're at, not where you are. Now, you know, because we can get bored with our message, but someone needs to hear it in the, you know, stage of life or stage of business that they're at. It's got nothing to do with you anymore. But I was going to say you can't change Lucky Bitch, because that will meet someone where they're at and like coming in at children chill and prosper, like is, I think it's a great overview of kind of the journey. But they need to be met where they're at, like where they are, and if they've, like, new to manifesting and just just seeing that that's possible, and opportunities and the lightness and the fun, and probably not the naivety of it, like,

29:28

I think that's, it's a really great place for someone to start. But I was gonna, I'll come back to the Liz Gilbert thing, because, okay, I met you at Marie Forleo, and you reacted that exact way I came up, I saw you. I was like, Oh, I saw the caftan. I was like, Oh, I think that's that lady. I just read her book. So this was 2019 I didn't realize it had come out that year. So, you know, you find your book when you find the book. So it must have been being presented to me, and I listened to the audio book. Saw you soon after. I was like, Oh, hi. Um, I loved your book. And you were like, huh, thanks. And now.

30:00

That I hear you talking about it. Of course, you reacted like that, I know. Thank you. And then it was that was all. And you also know question, because you talk about this, well, you were the first person to ask a question. Introduce yourself. Hi, Marie. I'm Denise Ruth Thomas, here's my question. And I was like, Oh, now I know that is, that is a tactic. I've been doing that forever, because, again, very introverted, and I used to have a lot of social anxiety,

30:30

like just, I don't know, talk, even talking on stage and things like that. And so I actually started doing that. Remember, at Marie's first live event that I went to in 2009 no 2012 sorry, because it was Harriet K and Sandy. That's how I remember it. And I thought, how can I meet people? And I, you know, when you go to an event, you think, I've gotta meet people, or I've gotta say hi to the Speaker of and you just, you get in a tears about it. And so I was like, I'm always going to be the first person to ask a question, because then I've burst the bubble in myself. I've then I can just be like, Oh, I don't now. I can just enjoy it. And then what happens is people will come up and say, Oh yeah, I've really liked your question. And oh, you know, thanks for Oh yeah, you're the person who asked the question. Oh, you're that Lucky Bitch person. And it really, really helped me to get over myself, but I love seeing you. And yeah, I was, I'll tell the abridged version of, yeah, how I came into your world. So I heard the book, saw the book, got the book. I remember, where did you see it from? Though, where I can think Amazon or something. So, okay, cool. That's really getting into football. So I very vividly remember being in the gym Nehemiah, my cousin lives, and I go to the gym. I live like a local when I was there, and I was on the Stairmaster listening to children, and I was messaging my friend, and we were I was like, let's be accountable. And I loved SMA, but it was like, you were just introducing it, and I still have on my phone that I did the quiz and I got ruler, and it's so funny. Now, knowing so sacred money archetypes, Denise can tell a bit about it, but I it's so funny. I love how you've progressed it, because I looking back at it now I know that I answered from that play, I was in the ruler place. And ruler can come up and down for me, like it's, I think any business owner can kind of embrace the ruler, but I don't think that was my true place. I think it was act like, that's how I felt like I needed to be. And I've let go. I've worked the there was a line at the bottom that was, you know, it's safe. Oh no. I can operate with grace and ease, and I've that. That's for six years. I've kept grace and ease like I can do with grace and ease, and I, in a lot of ways, do now. So that's why the rule has gone down. So then I kept followings, I submit you COVID. And then I must have gone back through the books. And then I kept seeing Money Boot Camp. But I was like, that's I don't I don't think I need that. Like, if I'm going to invest, I don't think I need that. I need business help. I need business help. And then you did SMA, and I was like, oh, take my and I'm a maverick. So I was like, take my money. I was like, probably knowing now I also like that I'm very unique, because my second profile, which has come to the top, is celebrity. So I was like, Oh, I'm the unique one in the which you nailed at the Oscars party, by the way, like when you did the glam bot slow motion thing. I was like, Oh, my God, amazing. Like, and Mark, yeah. Mark was like, Oh, she needs to get her hair and makeup done next year so she can really fully embrace that celebrity, because you had, like, the tossed hair and the glam bot. And I was like, yes, queen, and we will get the makeup artist and yeah, we'll, we'll talk them properly, yeah, but you still look like a celebrity even without that, right? So, yeah, sorry to interrupt. No no, that I loved learning all about this. And so then I joined SMA, and I just felt so seen. I love personality quizzes as well, but I felt so seen to understand that there's a reason why I act the way I do, that that that is I can accept those parts of me, that I can also work with those parts of me. I really have loved that, and then it finished. So you close the group, and I get that, and I totally get that as a maverick, and I'm like, taking that into my future courses. But I went, I need more of this, and I don't. I was like, Oh, when I have the money, when I do to do, then I'll join boot camp. But I was like, No, I need this community. And when I joined, I just, it's a testament like, how active that group is. Like, after all these years, the the group is so active and so loving, and it's so lovely to have a place where you can go and talk so freely about money, and you can say things like, I want to be I wrote in there, I'm going to go to the Oscars and be a best. We invested up to the screenplay. And people were just like, Yay, you well done. Why not? Yeah. Nobody was like, Oh, who is she? And if they are, whenever you think that you know that, you like, oh, that's money mindset. What do I have to do? Everyone is in there doing the work. And also, the cool thing.

35:00

As well as, like, I paid. And now I just now, like, whoo, it's free because I already paid. Yeah, totally, that's been my journey. And then I came on, and it's funny, I hear you talking about, like, people feel like they're your friend because you're very blatable, very like, grounded in the way you talk. And I was like, oh, people are weird. And then I was coming to the Rose farm, and I was like, maybe Denise and I will get on, like, maybe we will, I don't know, but I was like, Oh, just, you know, no, like, Don't be weird. And then now we're friends. And I just, yeah. I was like, oh, Emma,

35:33

you know, you came to my house recently and we did karaoke. And

35:38

I just so it's been really nice to be on that journey and to see your journey too. And I just, yeah, I think my message to people, I talk about money mindset now, I included some of it in the book, like, I just think you don't realize the thing, the main line from SMA that stands in my head is how you do money is how you do everything. And it's like, yes, which I got from my money mentor. I want to attribute that to her, Kendall summerhawk. She also created sacred money archetypes that that I'm certified in. And when I first heard that, so it was maybe 2009

36:12

and I was kind of like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it really is true that especially when you know what your archetype is, those lessons will come up again and again, with if you have money or if you don't have money, and some of the sabotages that I see in my own life, I'm like, that's the same when I was a kid, or that's the same when I was in my early 20s, when I had no money. And that compassion and self awareness is the key to everything, I think, because that's when you realize, oh, there is no perfect version of myself, like I'm I'm a work in progress, and I can make money now, as I'm imperfect and as I'm growing and learning, there's no point where I'm like, Oh, now I can make money. Yeah, now I'm allowed to, and it's a way to understand. And there's a lot of understanding, like not only self compassion, but compassion for others, like my husband is later. And at first you're kind of like, Oh, you like, you're like, Oh, we're on this table and you're on this table, but you realize, like, I now actually like, am grateful for, you know, his some of his elements. And there are people who I'm like, I'm grateful for some of your elements because I don't have them. And one of the great lessons was the team. And I that comes up. I'm got teams starting now, and you're like, What do I want in them that I don't have, or which parts of me do I need to have? And you know this part where I'm like, I do not want another Maverick? No, no, no, no, exactly. That's such a good lesson, right? Because I definitely hired mini me's in the first part of my business, because that was so fun. And they're, you know, their applications were so fun to read, and then they they made the worst employees that, without a doubt, they always quit after our onboarding session, because they basically got free coaching. I just was like, this is where I feel like, and then they'd be like, sorry did this. I'm so inspired. I'm just going to start my own business. And I'm like, When am I going to learn going to learn you need people who are not like you?

38:07

Yes, and, but that's yeah. So for the the quiz is, it's, can you tell the URL? Oh yeah, it's Denise DT com, slash quiz. So you know, there's, there's quite a few questions. But then what happens is, you get, you get your archetypes in List of order, because it is important to look at your top three. You know, I'm a ruler Maverick romantic, and that presents very differently to my husband, who is a ruler Maverick celebrity. And just that, that tweak at the end makes all the difference. The flavor is totally different for us.

38:44

And so yeah, Denise, DT com, slash quiz. It's like a three part free workshop, and it goes through who you are, and then you start to think about how you can use it in business. And then there is a there, there is an E course. And then once a year, I do a live version of the course, and it's super, super fun. I'm obsessed with it. And even just being a parent too, like I can see how my youngest, who is six, I saw her celebrity slash romantic come out very, very early in very obvious ways. So I saw her, she was in the in the pram, and she had, like, a lollipop or something, and she was looking at it. She was going, I deserve this. I really, really deserve it. And I just thought, oh my god, she has that celebrity romantic in her. And then it came out in clothing and stuff, and then she's absolutely got ruler. She's so

39:35

I was about to say bossy, right? Which is so dumb, because that's what, that's what we get told as kids, but she's got such leadership skills, and it can be very hard to parent someone who's just as stubborn as me, and so now, because I know that she has that celebrity romantic it's so easy to say to her, my God, baby, you have worked so hard at school today. You really deserve to just.

40:00

Ill in bed, and she goes, I do. I do deserve that. I have worked really hard, and it's we're just like little besties now, because I can, I can see what she needs, I can and I can see how to motivate her. And with Willow, she's very creative. So she has that Alchemist, you know, wanting to try different hobbies. And it's, again, not to say, oh, you're a flake. Oh, you have to pick something to say, you are a creative person. And I love that you try lots of things, yeah, you know. And it's, yeah, it's just and George his Maverick, and it's really, I find it really hard with him, with his Maverick, because my Maverick and his Maverick really clashes. And so instead of knowing to go, okay, use reverse psychology, I end up just going, just fucking do the thing that I asked you to do. And he's like, it's really hard for me to get out of that, right? And so,

40:58

yeah, the compassion, understanding is great. But also for business to go, you know what? Maybe my business isn't for that particular archetype, and that's okay as well. They can go with someone who, you know, gives them this instead. We don't have to be everything to everyone. Yeah, I love that. I bring into the retreats, the romantic and the nurturer and like, bring in those the language, like having the keywords and the language that I told you, how I have used them in chat, GPT, so like, this works so great profiles to adapt the message to suit someone and to be spoken to in your language. I think that's and I love my SMA friends, because, you know, we just can speak in language like and you instantly understand like, Oh, my Mavericks coming up, and they get it. And so it's, it's been such a wonderful way to understand ourselves. And speaking of retreats, I'm going to flip to that, yeah, I came to the Rose farm, and that was incredible. And I knew I felt called. I was like this, I have to come. I have to come. And I was right, because it was last one.

42:00

Yes, unknowingly that it was the last one

42:04

saying with the last one for a while you were saying that, and it was, I think sometimes people think that's like, almost like a marketing message, but you're like, it gave me permission to do the same. It's like, No, I'm never going to do it this way again. Like I might do it, but I'll do it differently. And so it's like, yeah, it's like, takes the opportunity. And now people are so many. People are like, Oh, I wish I'd gone. It's like you had the opportunity. You were told. And for me, that was like I was compelled. I was like, I have to be there. I have to make it happen.

42:31

So I went to Richard Branson's Island, Necker Island, and I was invited as part of a mastermind. And I remember there was a real mystique around that for a long time, of people going, Oh, I've been personally invited to Richard Branson's Island, which is, anyone can hire the island, right? So one of my friends, Natalie McNeil, she was on one of those mastermind trips, and it was like a lot of bros, internet marketing bros. And she was like, I want to just come back with women, you know. And then she's like, who's hosting, you know, a women's trip. And so she went to them and just said, oh, like, how do I hire it out? And they're like, Yeah, you can just hire it. It's $750,000

43:13

for five days, all inclusive, and and so she was like, Okay, well, I'm going to find 30 friends, or however many it was at the time to share this experience with me. And so I always say to people, everything is a viable experience. And even when she was putting that together, she was like, Who should we have as guest speakers? And actually, after you went you realized, Oh, we don't need guest speakers. We can just do this ourselves. But she was like, I wonder if we could get Michelle Obama here. I wonder if we could get Oprah. And so everyone is a viable experience, pretty much. So all of those people have speakers, rates, they have, you know, conditions, they have riders, all this kind of stuff. And and she said even the process of contacting people was fascinating, because some people were like, I'll only fly by private jet, or, you know, it's me and four friends have to come with me, or whatever it was. She said that, in itself, was fascinating. And just the fact that we think, Oh, I can't, you know, I can't, I'm not in the little kids club, and it's like, well, no, anyone can go. It just cost. It just costs a boatload of money, right? And so when I was there, it was, our trip had to be postponed a few times because of hurricanes. And when we went, I was like, Oh, you guys had said, like, you know that the island was devastated. It looks great to me, you know? I was like, Look at the trees. Everything was great. And they said, no, no, every single tree has been replaced. We bought fully grown palm trees and replanted them here. And I think that changed something in my brain, because I was like, well, I could have a retreat place myself. And so then when the rose farm, you know, when I saw that.

45:00

Sale. I was like, well, that's easier than an island in the middle of the Caribbean where everything had to be shipped in, like they had to create water, electricity, everything. And so I was like, it just seemed really easy. I was like, oh, what's my excuse? Okay? And then,

45:17

like, I never intended to be a retreat center. I was just very excited about, like, the possibilities, and I thought, Well, okay, I'll, I'll, I'll do it. And it was kind of almost my way of justifying it, of going, I can't just have something like this for myself and my family. I have to share it with other people. And so I don't think I would have created retreats, if not for that, of feeling like I had to justify the cost of having, you know, this amazing place. But I also feel like it was such a great experience of bringing people into the land and sharing, you know, sharing that place with other people, which, of course, you got to experience. But then it tipped for me of going, well, I can't enjoy it because it's I'm only ever the hostess for other people to enjoy this place. And even I'd made a decision, you know, last year, to sell it. And then I had friends over, just, you know, just for a day. Just say, oh, bring your kids over for a swim, and, you know, we'll cook up and stuff like that. And one of my friends was like, Oh, my God, it was so relaxing. And I was thinking it was for you. And Mark, you know, Mark is a great host as well. So he did all the cooking. He's, you know, he's bringing out, oh, here's a snack platter for everyone. And, you know, let's put together some water. And I was like, yeah, it's not a relaxing place for me anymore, because it's become a business. And then the intention is different, you know? And so I think that's that thing of like, what are you living your life for? You're always living your life for the gram, or you're always living your life in service of other people. And then it completely you miss the point of it. Yeah, yeah, that was a beautiful lesson. I'm going to put some links in the show notes. You've done an episode about why you're selling the rose farm. You did an episode about retreats, which was amazing, about the benefit of going on them, and then subsequently what you learned hosting them. But I think when I was there, you know, I was talking about buying my future home, and it being an Airbnb, and then being able to run retreats. And you're like, Ah, I don't really give advice, but, like, just

47:21

if I could. And it helped me to, like, it helped me to let go of my investment property there. It helped me to let go of that, you know, my husband had been really against it, and I came home and I was like, well, these ladies kind of said maybe he's like, what I was, right? I was like, but, you know, and then, yeah, well, you can rent things like. That was something, you know, I even said to you the other day that you rent them, you can rent clothes. You can rent a place. Like, right now we're not, we're not in a position to go and live where I want to live. We can just go and rent a house for a couple of nights. Like, I can host a thing in the place where I want to be and taste it. Don't need to, you know, I've had this dream of, like, going to all these places and having holiday houses be like, but why would I just have holiday houses in one spot when I love going to all these different places, like, that's not a good use of money to have something sitting there for all the year. And it just it helped me to reframe it a lot. So I'm glad, because I know I made it seem like it was really fun, but I think, you know, like, we're having a fence dispute at the moment, like there's a whole thing about the neighbors, which you I've told you personally, and it's like, I haven't been able to talk about it publicly, really, because, but I'm like, I want to have to think about offense falling down, you know, I don't want To think about those boring things that I am personally responsible for. And I love the idea of holding things lightly and visiting places. And I, you know, I want to manifest a new owner for the farm who keeps it as an Airbnb, or keeps it as an, you know, some sort of event place. So I could go back once a year if I wanted to. But, you know, when things become too much of a job, like I had to, actually did a lot of work with my Kinesiologist about this to say, am I giving up too quickly and it's boring to me, and that's my, you know, Maverick going and it's boring now? Or is it my ruler being too stubborn and going, No, no, I have to find the solution, even though it's not benefiting me anymore. And so I was like, really for months, just going, is it a money block, or is that a money block, like, which is the which is the money block? And she then go, what do I want for my family? And I think, you know, we're about to go into some tangency that I'll have to come back for. But I, I was very much like, oh, I need a legacy, place for my family. But in the creation of that, I've created all this extra work and stress for myself that I personally have to hold on to and going. You know what? I don't think that legacy for my kids is.

50:00

For them to be the richest kids and have all these properties they need, like, my presence. That's the legacy wherever we are. And I know my kids, they've been a little bit disappointed that there's a few times like, Oh, why are you guys selling the rose farm? But when I said to them, what do you love about it, they said, the pool, yeah. And I was like, when she said that, when Willow said that, I was like, Oh, I'm so happy, because I knew we hadn't moved into our new house yet. But I was like, that pool is going to be great. And actually, what they really mean is the togetherness. And our new house is actually so much better than our beach house for togetherness and hosting. And I know how much they love that. And so then I'm like, Well, what's my new dream, you know? And and that ego death of going, I'm not the girl with the rose farm, like I have to take it off my bio, yeah, very soon, you know. And to be like, That's okay, you'll always have created it, and it is such a I think the lessons will keep coming as well, even through this process. And I'm very grateful we're going to be hosting the aspirational authors retreat there in like three weeks. So absolutely and and also, you got to experience one of my other properties, which was the Bankston Bank, which was a, oh god, that's a whole other podcast episode in itself. And the first thing I said to Emma too. I was like, it's super haunted, right? And you're like, Yeah,

51:24

thankfully, because I felt it, but, um, but that was, again, the lesson of like, you saw it. I was like, I want to experience it. I kind of knew you were selling it, so I went and, you know, as soon as I was like, you've got to do the opportunity while it's there. Like, take it. There is time. But also sometimes not all the stars align, and you've got to make it happen now you have to go in. So yeah, I've got another I've got my fifth podcast episode of The Day After this

51:51

final question, which we I really didn't have any but

51:54

is, how are you living a life you love? Now,

51:59

for me, it's absolutely about self compassion, not putting too much pressure on myself. Because for a long time, what that question meant was bigger, more, you know, impressing people, having the making lots of money. And now I'm like,

52:19

I don't know. It's okay to be in different phases of your life. It's okay to want what you want. That's what I'm trying to do, and I think that that just requires so much self compassion and just always asking, you know, what's working for me right now? What feels good, what doesn't feel good? And that will, that will absolutely change over time, but knowing that, you know, I'm a creative person, and I'm going to have lots of different dreams and goals over my life. And why not me? You know, I love that you that reel is coming up, like, every day, like, why not me? Every day? I know, oh, God, I could do a whole podcast episode on that too. Of going, should I like each video? I was like, should I say more? Like, what am I? You know, this is a different level. And I'm like, No, I'm just going to say the simple thing and let people choose that they want, and it's literally just a little video of something random, and it's like, every day, ask yourself, why not me? And sometimes it's like, I look really fancy. Sometimes I look like crap, and but it's that's the point is that you, if you just say, why not me? I'm allowed to write a screenplay, like all those people, half the people in those speeches, they were like,

53:22

Ah, I just wrote something, and then I applied for it, and it's been a dream, like they just did it. We could do it. I love it. Why not? And this is going to be so much fun. I can't wait to to experience that with you. I totally believe that that's something that we can do, but we we gotta do the we gotta do the thing. You can just write write them. Can't win if you don't write it. We're gonna do it. I will let you go. I'm so grateful. I feel like it could be part 2347, um, we'll do it. We'll just make it an annual event. I'll catch you. But, um, absolutely thank you. I know you don't like gushing and gifts and things like that. Thank you for everything. Denise and you change lives. And I'm truly grateful for you. Thank you. Thank you. I received that.

54:04

Thanks. Thank you for listening. Lovell one. I hope this has inspired you to dream big and start creating a life you love today. If you love what you're hearing, don't forget to follow and rate on Spotify and rate review and subscribe on iTunes. It helps other awesome people to find this podcast and get motivated and inspired as well. Want to stay connected, come and join the live a life you love, group on Facebook or connect with me on Instagram. Emma lovell.au the same as my website, but all the details are in the show notes. Lovely. I'll see you next episode for more inspiration, motivation and freedom seeking Now go out there and live a life you love you.