Loving my lying, dying, cheating husband with Kerstin Pilz

#60 - Kerstin Pilz (EDITED)

Wed, May 01, 2024 2: 02PM • 54:43

Wed, May 01, 2024 2: SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Wed, May 01, 2024 2: retreat, grief, book, write, people, life, writing, travel, australia, vietnam, memoir, healing, call, realized, love, hold, lovely, podcast, live, story

00: 01

00: Do you want to live a life of freedom and adventure? Are you wanting more than the daily grind? Me too. Welcome to the Emma Lovell show, a place where we talk about living a life you love now, I'm your host, Emma Lovell, and my number one value is freedom. I've spent the last 14 years running a business and traveling the world. And now I take my husband and toddler along for the adventure to it's possible and I know you can create a life doing what you truly love as well. This podcast will inspire, motivate and encourage you to go after your dreams to create a life you love until you get now don't wait for a time and or someday in the future. I'll be sharing episodes weekly about how I harmonize business travel and self care. I'll also bring on incredible guests to share their journeys, wins the challenges and how they're creating a life they love. Let's jump in and get dreaming. This is a space for you to manifest a life you love.

01: 03

01: I would like to acknowledge and recognize Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as the first peoples of this place now known as Australia. I am grateful for the continuing care of the land waterways and skies where I work live. Listen, learn and play. From here on you can bear country and from wherever you are listening, I pay my respects to the elders past and present.

01: 25

01: Welcome to the podcast. Today I'm delighted to introduce you to caston Pillai, who is an author. She is a writing retreat host and the creator of write your journey. And she is one of my writing mentors actually attended a retreat with Kirsten. And so this is a really special moment to have her on the podcast as a now published author of her memoir. So a little bit more about Kirsten, I'm going to read it straight from her book, which is called Loving my lying, dying cheating husband. So Kirsten grew up in Germany and traveled the world before settling in Australia where she now calls tropical Far North Queensland home. She holds a PhD in Italian literature, and spent most of her working life as an academic teaching European languages and intercultural communication in Australia, Italy, the Maldives and on a flooding University campus aboard a cruise ship. She's widely published as an academic including book chapters and a monograph on Italo Calvino. Her travel features have appeared in the Australian The Sydney Morning Herald and the New York Times. But Keston life change when she was discovering the healing power of writing while going through grief, and she discovered it was life changing. She now writes a popular monthly newsletter up and hold writing and yoga retreats in Bali in Vietnam, through a small business she built from scratch, which is right your journey.com you can also find her at Keston piltz.com. Or watch her wonderful TEDx talk on the healing power of writing@ted.com.

03: 00

03: I love this conversation.

03: 02

03: And what Kirsten has done with this book, so much to share here. So let's dive in. Please welcome to the podcast. Kirsten.

03: 12

03: Welcome to the podcast, Kirsten Phillips.

03: 16

03: Thank you and welcome for having me back. Emma. I should say Bjorkman.

03: 23

03: So please tell us in your words, a little bit about you, Kirsten. Okay, so I'm a former academic, I was born and grew up in Germany, in case you're wondering about my accent, I came to Australia, having had a passionate wish all my life to become an author and a writer. And of course, I was a second language, English was my second language. I only had high school English. So I ended up Believe it or not teaching Italian studies at university as an academic because that is a language I had picked up waitressing in Italy as a young person. And

04: 00

04: so my career was in Italian studies. My last full time job was at Macquarie University in Sydney, where I was actually head of Italian studies. It was a very small department. And it was a beautiful career. But I never lost sight of that dream of writing a book, which wasn't an academic book. So I did write my PhD up on as a book as an academic book, which I guess is still available in some libraries. And my dream has always been to one day write a non academic book, which I could see at an airport and I did see it last week at the airport.

04: 39

04: For listeners, I'm holding it up sorry for your listeners. I'm holding it up if you're seeing the video you might see this so loving my line dying kidding husband, it is your actual physical book that I have read and loved. That's right. It's a memoir, and it was published this year with a firm press. Yes. And they've done amazing things.

05: 00

05: Have you had some incredible press, which we'll talk about? But I'd love to talk as well. You know, for me, I'm a little bit more invested in this book than maybe other books because I met too, on a writing retreat that you were hosting. And you were writing your book at the time. Yes, that's right. And you were pregnant with Finn. I was it was 2020. It was locked down for a lot of places. But we were both in Queensland. I think it was so phenomenal elders listening to a podcast about writing and love podcasts listening to a travel podcast, Amanda Kindles, about writing retreats and thinking, Oh, that sounds so divine. And I'd actually never been on a, I guess, a formal retreat before. I always liked the idea. But I always thought it was a bit out of reach, to be honest, I thought, they're very expensive, and then far away and long days, and that you got to do all the wellness to editor. And then you came into the comments of the podcast group, and said, well, actually, I'm hosting a retreat, and opened it up. And I was like, take my money.

06: 06

06: Very quickly, I signed up. Yes. Yeah, I perfect. I said to my husband, I need this. I was seven months pregnant. I felt like it was the last chance to be alone with my thoughts. Before I would always think of someone else, which is a lovely thing to think of my son. But it's it's the reality. And it was a bit dramatic, maybe. But it was true. And it was such a gift. It was such a gift to myself. And obviously, going on a retreat opened the door to me to a whole new business world. Yes, it was also a really strange time because it was the pandemic. So I had actually given up my career as a result of some difficult things happening in my life, which I described in my book. And so I had this idea to start to reinvent myself. And in order to do that, I had to live in the country that was a little bit Enix more or less expensive than Australia. So I moved to Vietnam, and that is actually in high and beautiful coastal Vietnam,

07: 07

07: where I ran my first workshops and retreats, writing and at the time, my focus was on writing for well being and healing and I had done a yoga, teacher training. So I was also combining it with yoga, teaching and sound healing. So it had more of a spiritual well being focus back then. And then as we all know, the borders closed, I happened to be in Australia for two weeks. And the two weeks became three years. And somebody said, why don't you start holding retreats in Mission Beach, and I still remember Mr. When you arrived, you, you walked out onto the beach, and he said, this is like Sri Lanka. And that's when I realized we may not be able to leave Australia. And obviously at the time, we didn't understand we didn't expect it to be two years before the borders reopened. But I realized that I had my you know, Sri Lanka of Bali lookalike location here. And so that then became a very popular retreat destination. Well, it is so tropical. I don't think people know necessarily where Mission Beach is. So it's one hour south of Cairns and one hour north of Townsville about two hours south of Cannes and two hours north of Townsville three hours north. Oh my god. I don't think people realize how big Queensland is like Queensland is such a long state. I'm in the very, very bottom of Queensland in the Gold Coast. So literally 30 minutes from the border. It goes all the way up to Cape Tribulation, like it is huge, huge, huge state. And so it was crazy. Even I had to catch it. And it was an hour and a half flight to Cannes and then we drove down. And I kept thinking, Oh, I've got to call Matt. But the time difference, and it wasn't a time difference. State but I felt so far away. So far removed. It was at a time when Yeah, we couldn't do the travel. It was it gave me that instant, like international feeling.

09: 01

09: Just be so remote. And which I meant, you know what I don't only imagine I know that from the book. It's challenging can be a challenging place to live because of that. But the park is also that I don't know spaciousness, and yes, and well locked down. And we had a lot of freedom because it's very sparsely populated. And there's a lot of nature so we weren't locked down, you know, we just well and isolated which, for me was a godsend in a way because it was the time and quiet that I had needed to finally write my book. So I started it. The minute it became clear that we would be in lockdown for a while. And and by the time and before I ever left to go back overseas. I had pitched it to a publisher.

09: 52

09: It was yeah, it was so wonderful to be have to

09: 55

09: have you in practice. You were obviously had that academic writing and I think

10: 00

10: He's reading the book I didn't know, you told me and I'd heard that. But it didn't really kind of click how in depth set career was and obviously knew you had the writing experience, but I know you as this spiritual yoga retreat person, because that's how little time of life I met you. And I mean that in the book that's kind of coming at the end, and I loved not to give everything away. You know, it's the that this was part of your reinvention. And all of course, I knew you were traveler and I had you on my travel podcast. And we obviously had that travel connection and that travel heart you came from Germany, Italia, I didn't realize how in depth Italian was, but obviously you've lived a low life. So there's lots of themes, see this year.

10: 45

10: And you there's so much that you've had and then I didn't realize how much the travel was part of your healing as well. Yes. Yeah. And that was sort of perhaps should we give the listener? Yes.

11: 00

11: I guess a minute synopsis or the premise, let's say is already contained in the title, loving my lying, dying, cheating husband. So this was a late life, that marriage for me and for him for a while it was second marriage. I had just had a I call it my ovary emergency at 43. I lost an ovary and that triggered early menopause. And that triggered a depression. I suddenly thought What have I done with my life, I forgot to have a family not that I actually ever desired to have children because I was very focused on my career. And suddenly I realized I am married to Korea that will never love me back. And so when Prince Charming His name is Johnny came along and swept me off my feet. I didn't immediately see the love bombing I just saw Wow, here is a man with whom I can plan a new chapter in life. He shared with me the enthusiasm for adventure and travel. He had also travelled a fair bit, he was Italian, he had migrated to Australia. Later in life, he loved Australia. And he rode a motorbike around Australia, yellow Harley, and so he swept me off my feet. And then to me, you know, the icing on the cake was I got my dream job, I got to sail and teach on a converted cruise ship for a semester we went around the world, it was called the scholarship. And it was a collaboration between seven partner universities, mine, Macquarie University was one of them. And that was incredibly exciting. It was a unique and new program, which unfortunately, we got contracts to continue sailing, and I saw my world, you know, suddenly being full of travel. And then the global financial crisis hit the scholarship was the first program that Royal Caribbean had to take out of their program. And then suddenly, things started to unravel. Also, in my private life, as in my husband was diagnosed with cancer, which rapidly spread and was declared terminal, it started as a middle Lama. So as a warning out there to everyone, slip slop, slap.

13: 16

13: And then I also discovered, just as the the cancer had spiraled out of control, that he had been unfaithful since our wedding day. And so what do you do? In a situation like that we weren't told, you know, that he had a certain amount of time to live, it could have been anything between three months to 10 years, it was unclear. So the first impulse, of course, is to run a mile, the next impulse was to numb myself with wine. And then I realized, okay, maybe I needed therapy. And of course, I realized that would take a long, long time. So I ended up in a Buddhist meditation, Silent Retreat, and I found, I wouldn't recommend it for everybody. And my therapist at the time did not think it was a good idea. But it was very helpful to me, I just sort of it was, in a sense, a retreat, I took myself off to a Buddhist temple in Thailand, where I was the only white foreign at the time or female, white foreigner and surrounded by monks. And that actually was incredibly healing for me, even though it was a little bit weird at times.

14: 32

14: Yes. And so in the memoir, I describe this journey of how

14: 38

14: obstacles hitting your personal rock bottom can break or make us so it can lead to personal growth if we have the tools or the openness to lean into it. And it can also, of course, make us you know, it can break us so I was walking that tightrope, and

15: 00

15: And I learned a lot about myself. And I also discovered the healing power of writing. And that was what then led me to start holding my retreats where I combined writing, healing yoga, and now as a result of having written my book and published it successfully, having pitched it to a publisher, I focus more also on the structure of how to structure walk how to, you know, write a

15: 27

15: narrative that is engaging. Yeah, yeah. And it's, yeah, you know it because I knew you I not, I don't think I, maybe if I didn't know you were like this, but I honestly was reading like five pages. And then I was like, I want to call kissed.

15: 42

15: I want to write to and I did write to a few times as I was reading, and I'm like, I can't believe this. But I knew this story, because you had done your TED talk, and anybody can watch your TED Talk. And we'll put it in the show notes. And I remember how shocking that was for you. And you only touched on it sort of a little bit. The TED Talk focuses more on that. And it's really lovely hearing you say the healing power of writing because you have this lovely audio on SoundCloud. You've got a couple of audios on SoundCloud that I have listened to many times because of after the retreat, I use them as kind of helpful guiding. So hearing you say that the healing power of writing and your lovely voice. I'm like, Oh, I'm taken aback. I can hear your voice throughout, which is a wonderful, but

16: 28

16: I just yeah, it was. It's shocking. It is. It's I say it's a stunning book. It's stunning in that you are a brilliant writer, Kiersten and it is brilliantly written. But I say it's stunning also in the content if

16: 45

16: your left kind of words, just the fact that you are still standing. And the strength honestly, it's, I knew you and I but the way the depths of what you went through like it is

17: 01

17: the strength, a lot of strength and to share it to live it again, to have to live it again through the book and you have to live your living and again through telling it I think, is it is it healing is it helped cathartic? Yes, definitely. So the catharsis, I would say happened mostly in the journals. And that was the kind of writing you wouldn't want to share with your audience, because the audience wouldn't enjoy it. Because it's boring. It's just going out, you know, your raw emotions onto the page. And that's extremely helpful. I always say to people, take a journal, write journal things down, you know, work through things in your journal, it's a private space, and it's very unforgiving. Unlike your girlfriend who gets sick of you telling the same story again, and again, the journal doesn't get sick of you. And it also allows you to symbolically turn a page and write that next chapter and realize you are the author of your own life, we always have a choice. Life isn't fair. A lot of us experience difficult times, all of us will experience grief, it's inevitable because our parents are going to die usually before us so.

18: 15

18: But we don't really have that many tools. In fact, we have hardly any tools to deal with grief we have in our society. We're quite grief averse. That is also something I find really shocking that we don't really have tools to speak about it. We don't even use the D word death. So I found healing it I found it very healing to write for myself, I found it also healing to then eventually 10 years after it had happened to write it up as a book, where yes, it's a memoir, I did try to write it as a fictionalized story, but it just didn't flow. So you can put different emotional, you know, it resonates differently emotionally if it is a true story.

18: 58

18: But I had to think of myself as a character called Kirsten, and I'm telling her story. And I'm sharing it, I was telling myself because it might help and inspire others. And thank you for you know, calling me strong and brave. And I do hear this a lot. I didn't think of myself as brave at the time or strong. But and at the time. Brene Brown wasn't yet famous. But since then we all most of us will be aware of her TED talk on vulnerability. And that's really resonated with me after the fact where she says the truly brave are those who allow themselves to be vulnerable. The truly brave are those who don't run from their feelings, but actually sit with them and let them take their course. And that's where writing can be really helpful. Yeah, it's Yeah, and although obviously, I knew, you know, dying or is in the title so you know that it's going to deal with grief but you will

20: 00

20: There were two problems of grief, there's such, there was grief in the depth of and people don't really in a depth of a relationship or, you know, potentially, or the depth of what you thought something would be, you know, there's grief of the loss of life that you thought you would have or loss of a dream. And, actually, it's sort of funny and I'm getting tingles is like, when I came to you, I was in grief. I was in grief of the life that I was

20: 27

20: no longer going to have, because I knew very clearly and just in a very rational way, it's not I you have all people know how much I love my son. And I knew I wanted to be a mum and I want to have this baby. But pregnancy was not an enjoyable process. I don't think it was intended to be but anywho. And then, but I was grieving the life and the change that I was going to, and in a way, it was good going through that process. Because then I felt so

20: 56

20: late. I mean, I'd gone through the process. And then when he came out, I was ready for it. You know, I was ready for that my life. And obviously not obviously, but I can't imagine my life without him now. Yeah, but there is a before a child and after a child, there's before a marriage, and after marriage, there's before death and after death, like Yes. And that's why I say grief actually, obviously also affects all of us. In the sense, it doesn't have to be death. That's right, the grief over a relationship, the grief over a life unlived I, for example, was recently diagnosed with ADHD. And I personally didn't experience this. But a lot of women who get this diagnosis late in life, as I have talked about the grief for the life, they could have left and lived rather, they had, perhaps the tools, the medications to control the ADHD. And I mean, I have those realizations. True. But it didn't affect me as a grief impact. It's more like, okay, that's the situation, what do I do with it now? But yeah, grief and writing, I think is a is a sort of very powerful combo, for sure. Well, and I was actually writing a book at the time, and I said, I've got to push past at the moment, I'm writing my book and the book that will go out into the world first. But I seem to get to the six chapters, I've written six chapters of a personal brand book, I wrote six chapters of my

22: 19

22: cold, I call bullshit on the glow, basically. And it was about the pregnancy. And as you said, it was if nothing else, if I do not publish that book in into the world, it was a very helpful process to get down those feelings and to be honest about those feelings and to share it, I shared them in posts and things like that. Because to black you it's, then you're not you don't feel alone. And maybe you help someone else by telling that story. So if it did nothing else, it really helped me through that time. I do think that books still will see the see the world and I will get your help one day. But yeah, it's been really interesting writing the book. Now even there's, there's just when you go back through your journey, when you've written memoir esque things, I guess mine is I would say, What did you call it? What? What I'm writing

23: 10

23: was, it's not a true memoir, teaching memoir, teaching memoir. So yes, you use story in order to make a point. So, which is nice, because I read a great book actually called ride of a lifetime by the CEO of Disney. And he opens with, although this is not a memoir, you know, it would be remiss of me not to tell my story in order for you to understand, yeah, how I got here. And I was like, that's such a great way to put it like you have to, you have to have the context. And you don't just arrive here. Yeah. And you have to when, as I was going through my personal grief at the time, I found it.

23: 53

23: Very I wasn't I had always been a strong reader. But I wasn't suddenly interested in escape stories. I was very interested in true life stories of people who had somehow been affected by the same things I was affected by and I personally wasn't, you know, affected by cancer, but I was the carer of a cancer sufferer, or patient. And so I obviously was interested in how do other people negotiate this. And I found the true life stories much more interesting at that time, which is why it became clear to me that I needed to write mine as a memoir, but I did choose to write it as a plot driven. So narrative nonfiction, and people often tell me and that is, of course, a lovely compliment, that they read it in one goal that it's a page turner, and that, you know, and it's also made them laugh, because that's one thing. It was a very sad topic. And I wanted to make sure that people had could also laugh out loud in that book. And so I think that's also one of the things and in fact, I know that is what

25: 00

25: had sold the book to a publisher. I was very lucky, the first publisher, I pitched it to said yes. Which is incredibly rare, especially when you are publishing

25: 10

25: a memoir. And you're not a known person. Like if I were a celebrity, or you know, the sole survivor of plane crash, then it's different.

25: 19

25: And they said they liked the humor. And that's why the lying dying was actually part of the pitch I gave to them. And they insisted that it had to be in the title. Oh, the title is, it's brilliant. It's stunning. And it is entertaining. It's very is a page turner. Absolutely. It's entertaining. Even though like I said, I knew the outcome. And I knew parts of the story. I couldn't wait to get to that. But there were definitely parts of the healing that I didn't.

25: 47

25: Didn't know. And then the grief, it's really interesting. Yes, is when you read a book, and I knew I wanted to read the book, I didn't realize how helpful it would be. For me reflection, because I am in grief at the moment, my nephew is terminally ill. And actually really practically very helpful in that.

26: 08

26: The process that you know, and the things that you had to discuss, funnily enough, on a chat on Facebook the other day at death's door that came into the chat, and I was like, I really want to talk to you. So she's going to come on the podcast. And that being open about the openness about and interesting that if you know, the, you know, the your travels took you to India and Sri Lanka, because I think that there's so much better at dealing with death there. Yeah, well, that was one of the reasons actually. It's interesting because while two things I used to write travel articles for a while, as you know, my sort of launching pad to get away from academic writing. So I have one part of the book reads a little bit like a travelogue, where I go after we had a Category Five Cyclon destroy Mission Beach as three weeks after the funeral. And so I needed to get away from a grieving community grieving about the loss of their homes, the loss of the natural environment, while I was also grieving my husband, so there was a incongruency. And I had to get away from it. And I found solace in those countries. I actually had a chat the other day to a group that included scientists from India, and they asked me, I've always wondered why Western people come to our cultures. What do you find? Then? I thought, that's a really interesting question. And the answer for me was I was raised, you know, secular, we didn't we weren't not a religious family. In fact, my father is an outspoken atheist. So when you come to these situations, which are so much larger than yourself,

27: 47

27: you do feel the need for a spiritual dimension, spiritual connection that wasn't part of my tool set of my repertoire. I often in fact, in the book, I say, I pray to the God I don't believe in because I felt like I needed to pray to someone, you know, I needed to pray. And I just pray and you can still pray even if you don't believe in God. But what I really wanted to witness in these cultures is the devotional practices of a religion. That actually makes sense to me. And Buddhism is a religion that I have always looked towards as perhaps if I ever needed spiritual tool, tools. Buddhism had always appealed to me, because it's not a monotheistic religion. It's not about a God that we believe in anybody actually can attain Buddhahood it's about transforming and evolving at the core. They talk about ripening the mind, you know, cultivating good emotions and those things really appealed to me and especially as together my lying lying, my lying, lying cheating husband and I were trying to heal what the doctors couldn't heal, namely his health. We could heal the emotional rift by you know, by using some of those tools and because chemotherapy for example, wasn't an option for melanoma. We looked towards what other methods for healing could there be and the Ian gala foundation in Melbourne has a book with meditations in Galva himself healed himself from his own cancer many years ago through a spiritual practice meditation and healthy foods. So that was our only option and it was very beneficial on many different levels. Yeah.

29: 40

29: I lovely. I truly believe it's your time to shine. To build your business. You need to know the right steps to take at the right time. And I know it can feel so overwhelming trying to figure out what to do next. When there's so many things to do. That's why I offer the Hour of Power. It's one hour where we get clear on

30: 00

30: actions that you can take, start building your business today. You can use this session to get advice, review content, build strategies, or work through mindset books, we could simply talk about what you want to do next, what you want to attract into your life, and how you could actually bring more travel and enjoyment into your life. It's whatever you need, this is your time, and I'm here to back you every step of the way. So let's hit you up to massive success. Check it out. Ours power, you can find it on my website, Emma lovell.au forward slash work with me. Check out the show notes. And if you're interested at all, please do contact me. You can also get me at Mr. Emma lovell.au. Now back to the episode.

30: 43

30: I think to be at peace with things I did do a silent meditation. It is not for everyone. I did it and I loved it. But the thing that stayed with me was always the Accept the reality as it is. Yes. When you're in crisis, you know, it's so easy to say woulda, shoulda, coulda I wish it was this way. And I think that Buddha's teaching of all that. That's the Dharma but you know, of the mindfulness, just the reality as it is actually what is actually happening? Not, not what I'm preparing no catastrophizing for three months time, not what would have should have could have happened. It's what what can I do? Like, what do I have right here and it doesn't give such a sense of peace. Okay, that's the same is true that it is what it is. And not easy to tell someone else. You have to experience it. But yes,

31: 38

31: yes. And I love you say the beginner's mindset as well. And I think that that's something we bonded over was the beginner's mindset and the travelers mindset, I think is very similar to the beginner's mind. That's right. Yes. Seeing with things with new eyes. Yes, seeing everything for the first time looking at things like like a child like Finn, you know?

31: 59

31: Yes, that's right. And also, he really slowing it back down to this moment to this breath, like tick, not Han, the Vietnamese Zen master teachers, you know, you're only alive fully alive in this breath, and the next breath, and it just is moment to moment, awareness and being grounded in that, you know, unchanging presence. It's really important. And, of course, at the time, I cultivated a strong meditation practice, because I had to, like you said, it helped me not to catastrophize or to think, Oh, my God was going to happen tomorrow. No, I'm just here now, and I can be happy in this moment. But of course, you know, then life goes on. And you know, it's a long time ago. So now I have to make an effort to go back to that sort of level of calmness, because is a practice, just like forgiveness and gratitude are practices, you know, that have to be cultivated that again and again, and I was just saying, and one of the things I did all to do in India. I made the pilgrimage to Varanasi. Everybody had warned me, oh, my God by yourself in winter to Varanasi. I loved it. I mean, one of the great things about Varanasi is it's, it's on the Ganges, so there's no cars, no traffic on the water as you wander along with gas, it's very quiet and peaceful. If you can stand India, I personally don't have an issue with it. But a lot of people perhaps would feel challenged. But what I really wanted to witness is their rituals of burning the dead at the river and then you know, you become part of, you know, you're crossing over at the holy Ganges. I mean, not that I necessarily believe that the river would give me Moksha and liberation, as the Hindus call it. But I just loved this different approach to death, which is not clinical. I still remember the undertaker coming in saying, Well, you better leave the room now there will be fluids. And I'm like, I've been in touch with my husband's fluids for the last you know, 12 months.

34: 05

34: Nothing will surprise me now. But I did as I was told and then to go to India where you know, you watch birds bodies being cremated on open pious so that was just

34: 17

34: gave me another way to get closure on having witnessed

34: 23

34: it. Yeah, it's interesting. My colleague and I, because I'm the travel partner in India, we organize people's trips. And my advice is always if it's their first trip, if it's potentially the last I'm like, Sure go to Varanasi, but I'm like don't go on your first trip. It's

34: 39

34: I would go back but it's extremely

34: 42

34: it's an entrance. It's very, I mean, very spiritual and very, definitely my first my first confrontation experience with death. I guess I had seen it in Nepal. I'd seen the bodies but there's something much deeper in there and I had one of those nightmare dreams and I can still picture that

35: 00

35: like seeing the dead body and, you know, but I loved also how open it is. And I like how conflicted I am about it too. And as I said, I would I would go back and I just I like to brief people about I think people will need to be aware of that going in for and you went in so consciously and

35: 20

35: have what you wanted to experience. It's definitely something to experience. Yeah, for me not not enjoyable. But moments of, it's interesting, but you can really feel this is something very something they're very special and different, very ancient to, you know, Mark Twain called it a city older than legend. You know, some say it's the oldest living town in the city in history.

35: 52

35: I mean, it's unverified obviously, to say that, but

35: 56

35: my foot, it wasn't my first trip to India. So I'm not sure how I would have gone on my own. It was my third or fourth trip to India. And I think like a lot of people. My very first trip to India started in Kerala, because everybody says start in Kerala season.

36: 13

36: Yeah, definitely. Oh, it was wonderful for me to be transported back. But you know, I think it's interesting. make one more point about the book. And then I want to just talk to you quickly about retreats before we wrap up. But

36: 25

36: I just really, you know, that you were going through this grief, and that there are so many versions of grief and that you basically went through a death, grief, a marriage, you know, potential breakdown, grief, a cyclone, natural disaster, community grief. And then when you were writing this book, we were going through a global grief. Yes, that's actually that's a parallel there. I hadn't thought about it like that. Yes, that is true. And, actually, now that he said, You know, I was like, everybody has their own, you know, pandemic story. Mine was I had just set up myself really, you know, in Vietnam, I had rented a house for three years at a house that I really loved. And I had invested a little bit of money in, you know, plants and soft furnishings and a desk and, you know, made it like it was beautiful nest for me to come back to, I had shifted all my winter gear to Vietnam, because it's closer to Germany. I mean, you know, it's 10 hour flight from Hanoi to Frankfurt. So I was just back in Australia for two weeks with a carry on. And then the borders closed, and Nigel, my partner, was stuck in

37: 39

37: Vietnam, and then became clear that he would be there for a while, and I would be here for a while. And so like you say, suddenly, everybody was going through this incredible grief, trauma or whatever. For many people, it was also financially, you know, very burdensome. So the first thing I did is I offered my newsletter, myself, my community,

38: 03

38: online writing, sessions, writing for well being how to find calm and peace in difficult times. And that was nourishing for me and for them because I was on my own in Mission Beach. So I brought them into my living room, and then sitting down to write this book, that was very healing in the sense that I had already healed from the trauma and the grief. But in terms of my career, I could then go right, I am actually finally doing what I've been wanting to do, as a child, reinvent myself as an author in English. I mean, as a child, obviously, I didn't dream of writing in English. So yeah, that that was a very, very thorough way of, I guess, using the pandemic as Okay, what do I do from this? From this global rock bottom? How can I find a lining in it? Yeah, it was a gift. It's how I started podcasting. And the travel podcast started out of that, and we did a recording for it. But I think also, I just think one of the things I'm recognizing in your book, as well as the acceptance and acknowledgement of when you are in grief, and how you Trent travel through that grief, that everyone deals with it differently, but not acknowledging it, not accepting it. That's probably where the challenge it has to be that I am in grief. And now I can find a way through, like, find a way that is going to help you through. But if you don't acknowledge it, and don't deal with it, and don't allow other people to as well just come on, you know, that was something I was getting so angry at everyone around if you'd like letter B, please let

39: 41

39: me know I was, at the time often thinking, I remember even growing up in Germany, widows would wear black or in Italy, you know, you would I guess wear black for the rest of your life. Not that I was, you know, envious of, of that particular tradition, but I just thought okay, that's a way of

40: 00

40: signaling to the world that that person is grieving, or I'm sure there's cultures where you're, you know, wearing black for a year on armband to signal to the world. And then the world knows, okay, they're in that particular emotional state, let's give them some space. Let's cut them some slack, you know, and so that that was a thing that I found really difficult, especially because people, and those particularly who have not gone through significant grief, have opinions on how long it should take, and also very frustrating.

40: 35

40: I look, I'm gonna hold it up again, it's a must read. It's absolutely stunning. It's

40: 41

40: life affirming. It's, it's, it was I'm extremely proud of you. And as I say, I have a very personal connection to it. So I feel it just to see something like that come to fruition. And of course, um, you have a writing mentor to me, and I'm in the process of writing my own books. So it's, it's very inspiring and aspirational, to see, to get to hold, you know, and the feeling I saw you signed the book for my mother in law the other day, and, you know, I'm going to be signing that book. And like, how does that, you know, how does that feel? And I love seeing your journey? Yeah, thank you. And just one word of advice. For anybody who wants to write a book, write the first draft fast, just write it, don't procrastinate. Don't question yourself. And don't if you're writing about your own life story, worry about Oh, my God, What will others say? You can write anything in your diary? It'll be a long, long, long time before it will be published. So don't worry, just do it. That's right. Yes. And retreats. So you have you are you have consistently run the retreats. And you and I are getting, keep talking. And I think we will probably have to get you on to talk specifically about that another time. But

41: 54

41: the retreats now, so they're still part of, you know, really part of your offering. And you've got a few more coming up? Yes. So I when I first started my business, right, your journey.com. The idea being you can write your own journey, you're the author of your own life, I had these retreats with of

42: 18

42: emphasis on healing and well being and meditation and so on. Now, the emphasis has shifted a little bit because I do get a lot of writers, often, people who have had careers in writing journalists who need sort of a little bit of a kick, to get into a different voice from the voice that they're used to writing in, people come with completed manuscripts, and other people will come with just an idea and a desire to write. So I hold them in Bali, that also happened as a result of the pandemic because I hadn't yet I wasn't yet able to resume going to Vietnam, I was worried, you know, what will happen if I put it on, and then the waters close again, and it's a lot of organizational administrative hassle. And I had met my now co host at Vina shore who is actually a Brisbane based writer, she teaches creative writing at UQ. And she said, why don't we do one together in Bali? And initially, I thought, oh, Polly. Oh, no. How predictable is that. But it turns out, Bali is a great destination, especially for Australians, because we're familiar with it. It's not scary. So and we have a beautiful venue, it's an eco resort, it's in the middle of nowhere. So it's not the kind of place where you can just quickly take yourself off to the shops or fancy restaurant at night. The idea is you're actually there in nature, listening to the waterfall to the you know, the the stream that runs through the property or the food is sourced organically. So yes, we have Italy sorry, we have barley, we have resumed Vietnam this year, which is always incredibly joyful, and we hold it close to Vietnamese and Lunar New Year. So that's another added sort of joyful bonus. And we also now are going to Italy next year, simply because, well, I, you know, I haven't had a career long career in Italian studies. So I think it's time for me to return there. And um, I've had many requests for people saying, where's the retreat in the second half of this year? Can you put one out and so watch this space? Yes. It just goes hand in hand and you know, people asking me who is like the ideal people to run retreat. So who am I sort of working with when I'm, I'm now after coming on your retreat and loving retreats, I now host my own and I now teach people about running retreats. So for me, it's like riding in retreat. It just, it just makes sense. Wellness, yoga, obviously, they also make sense and they're the ones we really typically think of a health style retreat, but also our spiritual retreat and

45: 00

45: then writing retreat because it is something that lends itself to being in that, that space being taken away so that you can focus and tap into something different, and how inspirational to do it in a lovely location. And yes, and we still use the spiritual tools, because writing is also a practice of going inward finding, you know, the story, and or finding the focus finding the flow. So we do start every day with yoga, meditation I'd been at as pranayama breathwork at the end of it.

45: 36

45: So that's focus is still there. But we now also really do sessions on you know, how to publish, how to pitch, how to structure how to keep the reader engaged, and so on. Yeah, yeah, I was a bit delusional. I thought I would come away for five days and basically just be like that typing cat and just right, right, right. Right, right. And then it was that beginner's mindset and opening your eyes and actually helped me fall in love again, with because I, at the time was doing writing for work and copywriting for work and writing articles for work and writing for other people and writing as other people in their voice in business voice. And it was really nice to just

46: 19

46: see where I think you said, let's see where the pen takes you and to hand right into, you get one exercise. So you gave us all an object and I think I got a piece of like, red strength is there is the remember, you got the nest of red. And you're like, Oh, what am I meant to do that. And then you wrote a story is that oh my god, I can write a story from nothing. It was I still had, I think I published it on my blog, it was taking me to something about my pregnancy experience, and just really fun to see where it went. And so there's those practices and those tools that you know, that put the timer on, put some music book, quiet. And when I can't start writing, it's how I it's how I started when I still do that, too. You know, I'm hoping to write a book. So now I'm feeling a little bit emptier. Where's my creativity gone? So I set the time I say, okay, you've got 20 minutes. Don't think about anything else. Don't check your phone. Just write and it is surprising what will come up, you know, because that's when you can outsmart the editor. And you just get to that unconscious mind. And that, you know, first thoughts and often there's a lot of gems in this.

47: 28

47: This has been an absolute masterclass and in many things, in many things, I could always talk to you for many hours. And I'm so yeah, grateful for you and my life. Keston you are a mentor.

47: 44

47: I get Yeah.

47: 48

47: Oh, you helped me. And it really

47: 53

47: difficult time. I was really struggling.

47: 59

47: As I said, I was in grief.

48: 02

48: A really interesting, complicated grief that I think many women probably go through and aren't able to voice because they're meant to be happy, and joyful. And I love my son beyond words. But I You also have the part of you that dies, and a life that ends and you held me in that space. And

48: 30

48: you

48: 33

48: haven't got to say laughing but only I'm laughing in joy, because I am enjoying the fact that you are your depth of feelings, and that you're allowing yourself to experience them, I would say that it's the container of the retreat. Because you were surrounded by other women mothers, remember, we had the Osmo.

48: 55

48: And so that's the beauty of a retreat that you have the group that bonds and then supports each other to go that next level deeper. Yeah. And we said, a client said, you know, their life changing and always I, I said I've think for me retreats, allow a transformation. And I was in a state of transformation. And a book is a transformation. And writing is a transformation. And

49: 25

49: you know, that say life changing, but she also said life saving, and you know, it sounds intense and dramatic. But going away on the retreat might be the thing that it saves you in that time. And I absolutely experienced the power of it. And it's why, you know, it was a turning point in my life and cannot express my gratitude to you and then I'm so happy that we're still in each other's lives and excited for what is to come. And I'm very excited that you now hold retreats and that you've invited me to join you in Brisbane. Next month. My retreat over

50: 00

50: treat Dave in Brisbane. So if you want to learn come and learn with me and learn from Jason's many experiences and wisdom as well, which is the gift of doing things in a group, as you said, and we're creating that retreat experience, please come but all the things will be in the show notes. Loving my lying, lying cheating husband, it is a must please buy it. Please buy it and support an author. And please buy it because it is a thoroughly good read. Also available on Kindle and audio. Okay. Congratulations, Duncan Pearson, and I'll see you soon.

50: 35

50: Cheers. Cheers. Thank you very much. Thank you for listeners to

50: 42

50: okay, this is the second time I've done this. It's I get so caught up in this wonderful conversation that I forget my one job. There's one question I asked on this podcast. It is. What does living a life you love look like now?

50: 58

50: Yeah, good question. That's what I've always tried to live a life that I love. Which is why I've you know, broken out of the mold left small town Germany went on the journey on my own with a backpack I had in the 80s. No, no mobile phones, obviously no credit card, I went to Jakarta ended up in Australia Long story short, I did like being an academic, but it wasn't completely aligned to my purpose. So living a life that I love now means I can work anywhere. And the pandemic has given most many of us that gift actually. And I can choose to base myself in Vietnam, where I have a small community, I've realized I'm a global village girl, I don't actually like live in a big city. I grew up in a small town in Germany, and I like small towns. So I can choose to live my life also escaping the seasons as in I don't have to suffer the hot hot summer in Vietnam. And I don't have to be in far north Queensland for the the often extremely annoying, long wet season with you know, cyclones and flooding and all of that. And so living a life I love is a self directed life. But for me, it means also having a very strong, strict routine. Because it's very easy to get off track. And you have to motivate yourself all the time. I know a lot of people who dream of writing a book and I have dreamed of writing a book for a long time. So in order to make it happen for me, I love the life that I love includes also sticking to a routine, like a morning routine, getting out of bed, you know, at sunrise, I mean, that's my routine. Not everybody has to get out of bed at sunrise. So yeah, that's very important for me and to have good friends that I can

52: 49

52: lean on when you're traveling around at the moment and spending time with people and doing the book tour. And I think it's yeah, the reason I say now is because it's like what living a life you love looked like when you first started traveling.

53: 05

53: Like now, and that realization of oh yeah, this is yeah, I don't have to live in the big city. Like, somebody else likes that. Or I like a morning routine. You know, you said, I don't like that. That's okay. Because it's what you love. Yeah, you're doing it. Exactly. And for example, you know, I used to be a night owl. Now I go to bed early. I never thought I would be that person. But it actually makes me happy and healthy. So that's what I love also about my life to make sure I stay healthy enough so that I can write another book or tool

53: 44

53: and hold many more retreats. Thank you so much. I'll say thank you again and I have no doubt that you'll be back again and you'll dive into this wonderful topic again. Thank you, Emma, and best of luck with your retreats.

53: 57

53: Thank you for listening lovely one. I hope this has inspired you to dream big and start creating a life you love today. If you love what you're hearing, don't forget to follow and rate on Spotify and rate review and subscribe on iTunes. It helps other awesome people to find this podcast and get motivated and inspired as well. Want to stay connected. Come and join the live a life you love group on Facebook or connect with me on Instagram. Emma lovell.au The same as my website. But all the details are in the show notes lovely. I'll see you next episode for more inspiration, motivation and freedom seeking Now go out there and live a life you love