Holly's Hell: Seven years in a Thai prison with Holly Deane-Johns

Episode #66 - Holly Deane (EDITED)

Tue, May 07, 2024 6:47AM • 44:33

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

prison, people, holly, book, story, years, australia, happened, hear, life, emma, read, feel, lived, thailand, incredible, podcast, jail, addictions, day

00:01

Do you want to live a life of freedom and adventure? Are you wanting more than the daily grind? Me too. Welcome to the Emma Lovell show, a place where we talk about living a life you love now, I'm your host, Emma Lovell, and my number one value is freedom. I've spent the last 14 years running a business and traveling the world. And now I take my husband and toddler along for the adventure to it's possible and I know you can create a life doing what you truly love as well. This podcast will inspire, motivate and encourage you to go after your dreams to create a life you love until you get now don't wait for a time and or someday in the future. I'll be sharing episodes weekly about how I harmonize business travel and self care. I'll also bring on incredible guests to share their journeys, wins the challenges and how they're creating a life they love. Let's jump in and get dreaming. This is a space for you to manifest a life you love.

01:03

I would like to acknowledge and recognize Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as the first peoples of this place now known as Australia. I am grateful for the continuing care of the land waterways and skies where I work live. Listen, learn and play. From here on you can bear country and from wherever you are listening. I pay my respects to the elders past and present.

01:25

Welcome to the podcast today. I am so

01:30

beyond excited to share this episode with you.

01:33

I couldn't wait to have this conversation with the incredible Holly Dean John's Holly has written a book called Holly's hell seven years in a Thai prison. And I'm holding this amazing life story in my hands and I've read it myself.

01:47

The strength in the courage to share the story again to relive it is is so powerful. But just Holly's attitude is even amazing. I had the pleasure of meeting her in person as well and so it's it's really incredible to read her story and then to meet her in person. But a little bit more about Holly Holly Dane Jones was born in Melbourne, Australia in 1971. She was one of five children and at the age of 20. She was arrested on drug charges and served five years in Bandy up prison in Western Australia. Nine years later, she was charged with attempting to post 15 grams of heroin into Australia from Bangkok, as well as possessing another 15 grams in her apartment. She and her co accused were jointly charged with possessing 104 grams in total, Holly pleaded guilty and received a 31 year sentence. She was sent to the notorious Bangkok Hilton women's prison, known locally as lat. Yo, Holly's endured horrific conditions over the next seven and a half years staying alive was a daily struggle. Holly learnt Thai and formed several enduring friendships with fellow inmates, but faced heartbreak and anguish when some did not survive. She also success successfully stopped using drugs during her first year in the Thai prison. She wrote this book in large part to help others overcome their addictions. And after a lengthy battle to obtain a prison transfer from Thailand Holly was moved to Bandy up prison in Perth 2007, where she served another five years. Holly has spent the years since her release of tanning qualifications as a social worker, Counsellor and Hypnotherapist. She has also worked in in mining in Western Australia. Holly is now a speaker and community advocate on topics that includes substance abuse, PTSD, mental health and domestic violence. Please visit Holly Dean's Holly Dean johns.com.au For more info. That was her bio from a book and I wanted to read it because I wanted to share it properly.

03:46

Yeah, I can't wait for you to hear this conversation and to get to know the woman that we know now and her story. Holly Dean John's

03:55

welcome to the podcast. Holly Dean Jones.

03:59

Hi, Mr. Thanks for having me on. I'm so excited to talk to you. I've I've just yeah, I've been waiting for this. So I can't wait to get stuck in. But let's start with your own introduction of who you are in your own words.

04:15

Yes, so I'm Holly Dean. John's the author of Holly's hell, seven years in a Thai prison. Yeah, I think the story is pretty self explanatory.

04:29

Yeah, I spent seven and a half years in jail in Thailand, another five years back in Western Australia. And yeah, this is a story about my life.

04:40

Holy, it's just like you said, it's self explanatory. And I'm holding the book up for the people who are listening but we do have a video as well.

04:48

You know, that seven years in a Thai prison is one thing that you have spent a lot of time and one thing that I kept doing was like, I was trying to get on top of the Timeline and I was like, you know

05:00

I mean, you were sentenced with 31 years. But did more than that seven. I mean, I know that the Thai prison is probably is kind of the well, I don't know your words traumatic bit but prison. I mean, this is a world I don't know.

05:17

Yeah, definitely look to, to anybody, you know, reading this book, even watching things on TV about prison, it's traumatic, you know, any prison you go to, you know, it doesn't matter where it is in the world. But when you've sort of lived that lifestyle, and you do know what prison is like, in Australia,

05:40

it's it's very different going from an Australian prison to a Taiwan.

05:46

You know, it's traumatic enough in Australia. But in Thailand, it's this next level stuff. You're not actually in a normal prison, you thrown into this place with nothing, not given anything. There's no duty of care, there's no nothing. You're pretty much in survival mode 24/7. Every day, it's just such a different experience. And my husband knew that I had the book. And I was like, I think I'd finished to put into prison in Thailand. Like, wherever he's like, yeah, they get nothing over there, you get nothing. So, you know, in Australia would be you would have a bed and you would have food and you'd have some form of entertainment and physical activity, that they you have to buy your own food, is that right? They they did provide government food.

06:39

But if you didn't have to eat it, you wouldn't. It was disgusting.

06:44

The government food actually changed about four years, or maybe five years after I'd been there.

06:50

I don't know what happened to make the change. But the government food was actually very decent. You could you could eat it.

06:58

So yeah, it did change a lot over time.

07:03

And how do you I mean, we'll jump around a bit, I'm sure. But how do you feel now about? You haven't been back? I did read that you're not able to go back? How do you feel about now seeing if you saw anything about the prisons over there, or overseas prisons in general, that might have a similar situation? How do you feel about it now?

07:28

Oh, look exactly how I felt about it, then.

07:32

You know, in watching the news, or reading a magazine, if I hear that people have been arrested in these sorts of countries. I just feel like horror for them. You know, I really do, because I know exactly what they're going to be doing every second of every day. You know, when I say we're in survival mode, I really mean survival mode.

07:53

Yeah, it's just such a, it's just such a horrible thing, you know, and being on guard 24/7. It really does something to your psyche.

08:04

And how was it then, like, I just keep I kept thinking of you as a reading this book? And how you? How was it for you writing the book? How long did it take and like to go back to those places in your mind? How was that for you?

08:19

I started writing the book, the first day of my rest.

08:23

I just knew that one day, I'd want to write about my experience. So starting on day one, I did that because I didn't want to forget key moments. You know, when time goes by you forget the little details. And for me, when I read a book, I love reading those little details, because that's what gets you into the story. That's what makes your head go there.

08:50

So yeah, that was my purpose for doing that writing over time.

08:55

Look, there were times when I couldn't do it. But there were times when I couldn't write for a year, three years. I just couldn't go there in my head.

09:05

So yeah, that's one of the reasons why this has taken as long as it has

09:10

the wait for the listeners. So when will you release from prison? What year we released from Thailand? And what year were you fully done with prison altogether?

09:22

So I got back to the prison in Western Australia in 2007. And was released for good in December 2012.

09:35

I then had to have served five years on parole. Yeah. But you've been there 12 years now back in the community and and now tell us I mean, I know this story because I've read the book, but tell us the work that you're doing now.

09:51

Okay, so if I can take you back a little bit. Yes. When I got out in 2012 I thought I was absolute

10:00

Are you fine? I walked back into life, it was like I'd never been away.

10:05

Yeah, so you know, getting on with life. Two years down the track. I just hit a wall.

10:13

You know, I'd wake up in the morning crying my eyes out, I'd be driving down the street and start crying. I didn't want to leave my house. I didn't want to talk to anybody. And that's just not me.

10:26

I thought I was actually going crazy.

10:29

I went to see my doctor a few weeks after all this started to happen. He'd been my doctor my whole life. And he said, Holly, you've got depression for one. And you've got severe post traumatic stress. And when he said that, I was like, oh, okay, well, that makes sense. It hadn't even occurred to me that I had either of these things.

10:52

So yeah, realizing that it was like, oh, okay, I know what's going on. Now. Now, how do I get through it?

11:00

Yeah, so I went on medication. I did a lot of counseling, like, a lot.

11:09

So yes, for me, getting to where I am now. I had to get through that. And, you know,

11:17

thank God, I don't have a stigma around

11:22

counseling and stuff like that. Because I know a lot of people do. Yeah, a lot of people have that stigma, especially men I find on weak if I go to counseling, you know, men don't do that, or, you know, that type of thing. So I'm glad I didn't have that mindset. Because, you know, doing all that counseling helped me so much through that, that hard period of time.

11:48

So yeah,

11:50

you know, when I was in jail, I got a diploma in youth work, I did Community Services. When I got out, I became a Hypnotherapist.

11:59

I've done a lot of stuff. Because I've always known where I want to take my life. And I want to dedicate my future to working with not just youth, but adults as well, you know, who are going through addictions, they, you know, they may know, somebody that is having a hard time. It's like, I have lived experience with prison with addictions, with with all this type of stuff.

12:28

I get it.

12:31

And because I get it, I find that people are more willing to talk with me, open up with me, because I've been there. You know, and like I say to people, you know, I was you at one stage. You know, you can get out of it. You know, when when you're at the bottom, and you just think you know, that's it. People give up? You know, but when I tell my story to people, they're like, Wow, okay, I feel just so motivated. And now after talking to you listening to your story, and practice, people hope and that's what I want to do for people.

13:04

Well, I just Yeah, and I've been reading it. And when I seen you doing interviews and going through this process, I just have just kept thinking, Is she okay? Is she okay? Because to write it, to relive it to tell the stories, and you've had incredible success and exposure with the book and watching you on the project and things like that, but what are my first thoughts this year? Okay. Talking about this all the time, like, have you been okay, through this process? I have. Yeah. And that's actually a question a lot of people ask me.

13:40

I am and I have been okay. But if at any time, I think that maybe it was affecting me in a negative way, or deal with it. I wouldn't just, you know, think I'll be right. I know better than, yeah. It is the only benefit of going to I've had mental health challenges myself. I've had depression and anxiety. The only good thing about going to the bottom is that you, you do know what the bottom looks like. And you look you'd stop signs of that. Because the first time you may not recognize if you've never seen it, you know, the fortunate thing. Terrible fortunate. But when I was a teenager, my boyfriend's mum had depression. And so I'd seen it. And so when it was happening to me, it was like, I think that's what's happening to me and was able to get the help. But it does seem quite obvious that you, you would have the post traumatic stress, but I guess you live you had lived around all these other people who were dealing with it too, and just getting on with it.

14:39

Yeah, well, it's funny you say that because I was in touch with a friend of mine who I was in prison with in Thailand. She's now out we talk occasionally. She read my book. And she said to me after she said, Oh my god, excuse me. I think I have PTSD and depression as well.

15:00

And she said, I didn't even realize until I read your book holy. So that was actually a surprise to make.

15:09

And but it shouldn't have been a surprise, because I didn't realize I had it either. But um, yeah, you know, after reading my book, she said, I'm gonna go and get help, like you did. So you know, hearing that type of thing. That's great. Yes, yeah, sharing your story is a great way to do that. And I had the fortune of meeting you in person. So I'd seen all about you, because you and I share the fabulous book coach, Jess mudded. Just was your publisher with Hembree books, and you were her first, which is incredible.

15:42

And so then you were at the book launch, and I just, I can't in this is probably my prejudice and my whatever, which we all have, but I'm like, I can't put these two women together this, this woman that spent seven years in a tight prison and in the woman Holly, that I met, you're so yeah, not that not yet. It's my judgment. It's like you're so warm, and you're engaging, and you were so helpful and compassionate. And I'm like, how did this ever be your life?

16:12

Yeah, see? That's the thing.

16:16

You hit the nail on the head, actually, I think, well, sorry.

16:22

Who's been?

16:24

Yeah, look,

16:26

people like me, are stereotyped.

16:32

You know, heroin addicts, prison, you know, drugs, violence. You are you stereotyped and you put in, you put in a category

16:43

which is fair enough, you know, everyone judges people to some degree. But this is why it's such a great thing. And what you just said, you've actually met me, and you know, me. So yeah, putting those two and two together, it's a hard thing, because it's like, night and day. I'm a totally different person now. But, you know, even having said that, yeah, I might have been, you know, into bad things. But I was still me. And I was still a good person. I was still a warm person. My personality was still there.

17:17

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's made bad choices. And with. Yeah, I mean, also, the important part of the story is we don't just start in the prison, we start with your childhood, and, you know, your environment. And I remember the different circumstance, but I once did some work, a promotion day out at Mount Druitt, which is notorious for being one of Australia's most challenging suburbs.

17:43

And I hadn't really understood that until I saw that I was I understand that being in an environment where all you're exposed to is violence or crime or drugs, or if that's literally coming in your home.

17:58

What do you know, what do you know, then? But that and probably exactly altered life. But you know, what, you're lucky, you're lucky you have.

18:09

And that's exactly true. You know, that you same over here, you go to certain suburbs, and

18:15

you think what chance to these kids have? They don't, they don't have a chance that that will be their life? Because it's all they know. And nobody is inspiring them to do anything better. encouraging them to do anything better? You know? Yeah, it's sad. Yeah. And, you know, I've seen some of the interviews, and I've heard you speak and read your book. And like, I think there's no way I never want it to sound patronizing or anything like that. But I just think, like, how strong a character you are, like, just I just kept thinking throughout the book. I'm like, how, and I met you again, I met you How did that woman sat in front of me? When I've read what you've been through?

18:57

It just Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of people say that as well. Am I but you know, my reply to that is,

19:06

you know, everybody has something deep down inside them, that they can reach for when they need to.

19:14

Everybody's got that survival instinct. Well, not everybody, probably 1% of people might not have got through what I did. But honestly, I think the majority of people would, you know, people have got kids, they love husbands, they love friends, they love they have things to hold on for. Yeah, you know, you had something to keep fighting for even even when you were facing 31 years at such a young age, such a majority of potentially a majority of your life.

19:48

In Yeah.

19:51

Yeah, for sure. You know, and I've always had a really positive mindset throughout my life, which 100% has helped me get through the things that

20:00

had to get through. Because I don't go into a negative headspace. Yeah, I just don't you know doing that's not going to help you at all. It's only going to make things worse. And I know that. So you know, yeah, mindset for me was a big thing. Yeah. And then you've gotten learn about it with the hypnosis and the counseling, which is fantastic and the way that you're helping people. And I'll say that, yeah, it really it did change. I remember seeing the guys who were in, I think they were in Bali, the two gentlemen who did end up

20:32

facing the firing squad. And I must say, I probably didn't have as much I didn't quite understand, and I didn't have as much compassion. Your book has helped me feel more compassionate to people. And I know that one of the things that stood out to me is that people came to visit you people that you didn't know came to visit you in Thailand.

20:54

Yeah. Out of all the edible the foreign prisoners in the jail at the time I was there. I was so lucky, I had probably the most visitors out of anybody. Just people knowing that I was there. And just wanting to come in, you know, do you need food, you need money? Like, what do you need? And, yeah, that that just blew me away. You know, because coming to a prison to visit somebody, it doesn't just take half an hour, you can be there for hours for a 10 minute visit. So that really meant a lot to me that people did that.

21:29

And more challenging over this setup is more challenging over in Thailand than it is for a visit here in Australia. Oh 100%. I mean, you know, just the differences. For example, you know, here, you can have a two hour visit twice a week. Over there. It's a 10 minute visit.

21:45

You know, like 10 minutes, what are you going to do in 10 minutes? Nothing, you know, crazy. And something that interested me and you know,

21:56

you had your your partner, your dear partner, Steven, who's badly passed away. He was also in prison. But you had a long you didn't make contact in that time in the in the middle when you were in Thailand?

22:10

Um, yeah. We could write to each other. That was it? Yeah. Yeah. Did you did you have? Like, and he was having his own prison experience?

22:21

Yeah, at the same time, yeah. we'd write letters to each other. That's, that was the only way we could stay in touch. Yeah. And how did that come up for both? Like, you know, because you then went through your own post post traumatic stress? Did you guys have that kind of together? Or, like have that common point? Or was it kind of not a not a talking point?

22:41

Oh, no, it was a talking point. Like, you know, when when he found out what was going on with me, he wasn't surprised at all.

22:49

He actually said to me, I was waiting for it to happen. He said, because you can't go through what you did. And not have it affect you at some stage. So yeah, I mean, that made sense. You know, you're you're in a pressure cooker for that long.

23:05

The lids gonna, you know, it's got to come off sooner or later. And it took two years before it did. Yeah. Which is incredible. And, you know, we really addressed my prejudice and my judgment. have you faced much of that? I think just the work that you're doing is incredible. But did you have much difficulty getting work? Or accessing services or anything like that off to prison? None at all?

23:31

Yeah, no, none. And you know, another thing I say in the book as well, you know,

23:37

this is why I feel it's so important for people to read this, because what you've just said is so true. People who aren't around this sort of environment, they don't understand.

23:51

So yeah, for you reading this book, it changed a lot of the way that you thought about certain things. You know, I just think people should read it because nobody is untouchable.

24:05

To any of this, it can happen to any family, anywhere in the world. And a lot of the time it does, might not be in your immediate family, but for sure, you're gonna know somebody that knows somebody. That's just how it is. Now, unfortunately, that's where it's at. But yeah, like really, this can happen to anybody. You know, I came from a rich family. I went to girls, you know, private girls school. You know, we were very well off. But you know, life changes, you go through different things. And, you know, yeah, that happened to me, can happen to anybody.

24:44

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25:00

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25:47

Yeah, such a black and white view. And also Yeah, I was not, that's not my world. It's not my life. But my uncle is a police officer in the UK. And I think sometimes he's definitely seen things that I haven't seen, we were driving around a suburb one day, and he's saying, Oh, this happened over there. And this happened over there. And I said, I gotta get the train here. I really don't know, actually how much stuff really happens. But he also because of being that we have another friend who has worked in prison here, Australia, and do tend to get quite a black and white view of things. And, and I know, that's because that's what they taught is to profile and all that sort of stuff. But it's sort of run around black or white, you're done.

26:30

Yeah, you know, that's the thing is as well, you know, when when you're incarcerated. That's your punishment.

26:38

You know, all this other stuff added on top, you know, that's not what's meant to happen. And it does. And that's life. And that's the truth of the matter. You're not just you know, sent to jail on that seat. Your punishment just keeps going and going and going.

26:54

Yeah, and so I'm really glad to hear that you have it because you know, in the rehabilitation is meant to be rehabilitation in place is meant to be services and support, because we don't want to see that sort of cycle perpetuated and more people like that just to keep spiraling and growing. But that's also a choice. Right? And you You did make a choice to change your life. Oh, 100%, you know, and, you know,

27:22

when I got out I was I was told I, you might get through your parole, you'll be back in jail soon. I was actually told that.

27:30

And I was like, Okay, well, why would you say that are because I know your brother and your sister and they, they got out and they went straight back to jail, you know? And I said, Well, you know, just because that happened to them. You shouldn't be saying that to make it but he didn't care. He sent it straight to my face. And I was like, Wow.

27:47

You know, another thing I was told, you know, when you get out your your refund,

27:54

you know, like, these are people that are meant to be helping you actually telling you this, like far out you serious?

28:04

So yeah, people already have you painted a certain way. Well, I've got out, I completed five years of parole, no problem at all. I've never gone back to using drugs. I've never really offended. So hello. Yeah.

28:21

Yeah. So you know that that's really frustrating, because I know that everyone, probably not everybody, but most people are tainted with that sort of perception. It's it's mind blowing to me. Yeah, absolutely. And, like I said, I really, it really has changed a lot of my perspective, and I would definitely explore I travel a lot, I think, you know, that I would explore

28:48

I would never have thought to do that,

28:51

you know, pay some kindness forward and give give some benefit of the doubt, you know, and, you know, it's not we're not the law. I'm not the lawmaker. I'm not the judge and jury, like who am I to say, and you know, there are circumstances of, well, I know you are owning what happened, you are owning and taking responsibility, but there are circumstances of mistakes and mistaken, you know, they were actually guilty, which is wrong place.

29:19

100% 100% and, you know, this is another thing as well what I tell people, you know,

29:27

taking time out of your holiday, to go and say hello to somebody, people don't really they don't get how great that is for the for the prisoner. You know, just to get out of a horrible situation for 10 minutes to have a normal conversation with somebody hear news about home. Just the little things like that people think probably doesn't mean much but it means everything. It really does. And I did read there a couple of quite a few women that you were in prison with tire wear

30:00

men who were just the way that the law works is it's guilty by association. So it was a woman son had done something and other woman happened to be there while her sister and husband had done something. And they were all in the house. So one in all in it done nothing. Yeah. Yeah. And when those two sisters were sentenced, the one who was innocent, she, she just couldn't cope. She went and hung herself.

30:26

You know, like, how sad is that she was innocent. And she had a husband and children, you know? Yeah. It's heartbreaking. Yeah. And we don't, we don't know the full story. No one does not know the full story. And you're going in with that. So you did talk about it a little bit. But if you were to go and visit somebody in prison, and obviously each person is different, but I know that there were some things that you didn't really want to sort of talk about, or, you know, what, how would you? What would be helpful to discuss let do let the person say, What do you want to hear? I'll tell you anything, like?

31:04

How would you manage that conversation?

31:08

Or what when, like, people?

31:12

Yeah, if I didn't, you know, what's that, you know, you're gonna go and what's it like, you know, what sort of is appropriate or helpful? Or to have a conversation with someone who's in prison? Yeah, look, when I had a couple of visits like that, where it was like, I felt like a monkey in a cage. Just shooting question. Oh, what's it like in there? How long did you get blah, blah. And I was like, You know what, thanks for coming back. Like, I can't do this. And I just went and walked out. You know,

31:39

you want to hear news about home, like what's going on in the world? You know, we didn't know 911 happened until two weeks later. So you know, when you're in a prison like that, there is no news you don't know, anything. You know, all you want to do is just have a normal conversation and, you know, have a bit of a laugh, maybe, you know, get your head out of that situation for 10 minutes. That's it? Yeah. So you wanted to hear things from home? You didn't really want to talk about your, your day to day life? You had enough of that?

32:13

You know, I'm living it. I don't want to talk about it to you, you know, and I get that people are interested, I understand people are curious, but, you know, come on, do you really think we want to be talking about it? Right? Here, read the book? Not everyone's gonna do an interview with you. But we talked a bit about the book did you expect or anticipate like you, I've just, you know, been saying to Jess, your publisher, as well as to you. It's incredible. The appetite and the interest in the book? How would that been for you?

32:47

Oh, amazing.

32:49

You know, even like, I've always loved to read myself. And I always gravitate to the true story section biographies. I love reading a true story.

33:02

For me, you just can't beat it. So yeah, I wasn't surprised that it got a lot of interest. Because when people hear prisons, prisoners, drags, people are very interested in that.

33:19

Especially I've found, especially the people that have never been around that type of theme. People are very curious about it. Yeah. With like, true. Crime has gone crazy. It's that exactly. Weird, reverse kind of escapism. Just yeah. The dark thing that you don't know about.

33:40

Exactly, yeah. But to try and understand the mindset of that person. But it's a survival story, too. And I think in Australia, we do like a we like the battler we like, you know, we can also do the pulling down or the tearing down, but I do think we like to hear when somebody survived and when somebody's you know, beaten the odds

34:02

are for sure, they're the best kinds of stories. Yeah, because you, you know, sort of you don't expect it.

34:08

And as I said, I keep seeing this and I just cannot, I don't think I'll ever be able to connect the dots that I'm like, This is you. You know, this is you this girl is you and

34:19

what's your story, but it just is it's and I didn't know you then obviously but I've read through the story and it's just so it baffles the mind. I think I was kind of finished I was like

34:35

I luckily had the podcast booked with you. So like, I got to talk to just wanted. Yeah.

34:42

I mean, you know, even my friends who know me

34:45

and know my life, that a lot of them have read the book and rang me crying. They're like, I know I know the story already. They said but you know, after reading the book, I'm just like, yeah, devastated and so upset. So

35:00

Yeah, it's an emotional read, as well. How? And how does that feel for you? How have you dealt with that? Like, I guess you're sort of getting everybody else's feelings and emotions on you. How are you dealing with this kind of their journey through the book?

35:21

I guess I'm sometimes surprised.

35:26

Other Other times I'm not.

35:29

It's Yeah, it's funny because that that's my, that's been my life. So to me, that was just a normal life. That was normal to me. And as crazy as that sounds, it was it's true. That was my life for a very long time. So nothing about it was shocking. anymore. That was just normal. Yeah, it's not.

35:57

Yeah, he's gonna step back for a second, see the mirror that we're holding up to you. But I'm, I'm just so glad you're okay. Because I have watched the interviews, and I see you doing these things. And I do think for, you know, media can be quite a lot as well. So you're being interrogated every time. But obviously, the upside of it is that platform to share your story. And I hope that most people have been quite gracious with you, and

36:27

in allowing you to tell that story. I look, I have been so lucky. You know, you know how much media I've done, and TV and radio and everything. And out of all the stuff I've done, I had one bad experience. So for me, it's been amazing.

36:46

Yeah, I haven't really had any negative comments, everyone's been just really happy for me that things are finally starting to go my way, you know, in a positive way, this time. So yeah, it's, um, it's been really great. You've worked hard. And I love seeing you've now got your own Facebook page. I think there's a website coming up. Yes. What's next? And like, what is the already sort of working in that count? Like, what does work and the future look like for you?

37:18

Okay, I'm not gonna give too much away, because it's still in the works today.

37:25

But I will be working soon for

37:30

a prestigious speaking company.

37:34

So watch this space.

37:36

That's very exciting, because that's been what I want to do. I want to be a motivational speaker, you know, lived experience.

37:46

Still got another couple of things in the works as well, which will be, you know, doing talks with youths.

37:53

I'll be going into prisons, rehab centers, I want to do it all.

37:59

You know, I feel it's really important to me to do the prisons and the rehabs, because

38:07

that's sort of where I've come from. That's where I've grown that. Yeah. So I think, for me, it's it. It's a bit about giving back, you know, and talking to prisoners who are going through what I did, you can't beat that. Because I get it. I've been there. So you know, the other thing as well, you know, when people are talking with counselors or going through rehab, they want to talk to somebody that's walked the walk, not somebody that's just been to university and have read about all this stuff. They don't get it. And I was like that when I went to rehab, you know, talking with counselors that haven't lived, what you've lived. They, they don't understand. They they try to, and they think they do, but unfortunately they don't. So people don't want to open up to that.

39:01

Yes, that makes sense. Yeah. And that's why the AAA program in NA programs, and that's the why they've been quite successful, right? Because you've got people who've been through it, supporting people who are going through it and exactly reading and understanding and yeah, it is if you Yeah, rather than, you know, I said, I just can't fathom when you said you hope not to have to fathom it, but it really did. I'm really glad to hear that that's the path for you. Because honestly, it has, I think that's something read the book because you will realize how prejudice and judgmental a lot of us are I speak for others, but I'll say I'm owning that you know that I had my own prejudices and judgments and wouldn't have contemplated ever going near a president unless Yes, I did know the person personally and I just It showed me a lot of compassion and what compassion really looks like and

39:56

it is strength. You do have a strength holy you have a

40:00

Um, you know, I'm you are a motivational person because you have that mindset. And yeah, there's other people who've gone who've survived addiction. It's other people who've got out of prison, but like, you really have a doing more than that. And that's it to be shared. Yeah. Thanks, Emma, that's, that's really kind. Yeah, I just Yeah, I had, I can't recommend it more highly. You're gonna change minds and hearts. And I just think you need to be sharing the story again. And that's something that you've had to go through. You have to relive it over and over, but the, if it changes someone else's life, which I know it will, yeah.

40:41

And, you know, that's another thing as well, you know,

40:45

it's been pretty eye opening to me, with a lot of people who I've done podcasts with radio, TV, the majority of people have spoken to me after and said, Wow, I can really relate to so much that you talk about, because I have a family member.

41:06

My friend, you know, it goes back to what I said before. It's out there. It's here. And it's in your face. And it's a lot of people know, somebody. It's yeah, people that you wouldn't expect to say it to you have sent it to me, and I'm like, wow. Yeah, so I'm not really surprised anymore. When people tell me that stories. It's not shocking now. Yeah. I'm glad you're safe. Unfortunately. Yeah, unfortunately. But I'm glad that you can be that safe space for them and, and that you have your own way to handle and to hold and to cope with that. But you know, the question I asked on the podcasts, and I would love to hear your answer. I think there's some really wonderful things coming up. But what does living a life you love look like now?

41:55

Can you know? Oh?

41:57

Is that something you can say?

42:00

Yeah, look, um,

42:02

you know, life now, for me, obviously, is very, very different to how it used to be.

42:10

Look, getting up every day is just exciting for me. Because I have so much going on. And I'm working on great things at the moment. So yeah, every day is exciting. I feel motivated every day. I feel extremely happy every day.

42:29

Because I'm doing what I want to be doing now. I'm talking with people that I know I'm helping.

42:37

Look, yeah, my all I can say is that my life is now coming together the way I've wanted it to for a long time. So yeah, it'll look nice, great. Now,

42:48

Life couldn't be any better. Put it that way. Everything's going really great. I'm grinning from ear to ear for our listeners. That makes my heart very happy. And I'm so excited to see your ongoing success and, and to get to know you more. Definitely told you no one really said I'll look you up when I come to Perth. And you're traveling all the time, because you're doing all this fabulous. Definitely media. So I'm seeing you write your book launch.

43:17

Learn from the fro and you know, yes. And we're trying to get together I don't wear dresses, little altar crew. So we hope that as we grow, we can be like we were in the first you were the first we were in the first. Yeah, a lot of authors. So it's a really nice time, especially pastor walk. So I'm so grateful for you making time for me Holly and again, congratulations on the success of the book and everything you're gonna do.

43:44

Alright, thanks so much.

43:47

Thank you for listening. Lovely one. I hope this has inspired you to dream big and start creating a life you love today. If you love what you're hearing, don't forget to follow and rate on Spotify and rate review and subscribe on iTunes. It helps other awesome people to find this podcast and get motivated and inspired as well. Want to stay connected. Come and join the live a life you love group on Facebook, or connect with me on Instagram. Emma lovell.au, the same as my website. But all the details are in the show notes lovely. I'll see you next episode for more inspiration, motivation and freedom seeking Now go out there and live a life you love