Ray Pastoors: Working for a bigger purpose

# Ray Pastors - Case Study

Mon, Jun 10, 2024 9:24AM • 43:19

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

work, people, travel, love, emma, website, life, experience, business, messaging, virgin, day, give, corporate, destination, sustainability, started, ray, retreat, call

00:00

Emma,

00:03

welcome to the podcast and to the book. Ray pastors, hello, Emma. Lovelly, to see you again and hear your lovely voice. I'm so excited for this chat today. You've been on one of my podcasts before. Um, you've never been in my book, because I've never written one before, but this is very exciting, and

00:24

I've done a little intro, but let's jump straight in. Then, what is your job, or my job, or, let's say, business, I would say, so I have two. The first one is true green hosting, and so basically, we measure and offset your website carbon footprint and make hosting your website a lot easier as well. So I'm very passionate about that. And then the second one is my expertise in Google Analytics. So I teach people how to get the most value from that, that website tool.

00:58

And for me, you just do all the things that I don't want to Ray has been working on my website.

01:07

He actually built my website. The first person to build my website outside of me on WordPress using Elementor in 2019

01:15

it was really great. Actually, I had an epiphany. I was in Austin, Texas, walking down the road, and I went, Oh my gosh, I'm asking people to invest in me. Spend 1000s of dollars on me, and I'm not investing myself. And straight after that, I went to Ray and was like, Hey, I think I need your help with my website.

01:35

And it was awesome working with you, and yeah, being able to have that opportunity and to share the bright colors of Emma, which we liked as well. Yeah, well, and so, yeah, you know, it's probably not the work that he loves anymore, but still helps me is, like, just some of those, like, technical connections dealing with some of these website hosts,

01:57

you know, just getting your domain allocated to the right thing. Like, I think this thing so you can stuff up if you don't know, and it's just not, I know there's great learning about it, and learning about ACO, learning about these things, but I'm just very much past that point in my business. I'm 15 years in, and it was that thing again, of like, sure, I made my website and I did it was fine. It did, did its job, but, you know, I need to show up.

02:25

You know, if I'm asking people to invest in me, I need to show up like that. And there's only so much time, and so why not get an expert on who's, you know, in and out of this?

02:35

But um, how long, and this is a word, how long have you been working this way, which is a bit of, really a longer story than that.

02:43

Yes, well, I'm one of those people that started at a very young age, Emma. So if you count my hobby days back when I was seven years of age, I think that's when my journey started, when I was selling stickers for the Australian koala Foundation, and I was quite passionate about the fact that koalas are endangered and still actually are, and there's a koala Protection Act that's been debated, you know, in the future at the moment. So it's kind of funny how that goes full circle when you run these things. But it started off from that went to a neighborhood kind of magazine with my my best friend at the time, and we learned quite quickly different things, like, for instance, you can't really copy kzone. You know, kzone was a Kids magazine, and we thought, oh, let's just copy what they're doing and put it in our little community website and newsletter. And that was the first website that I ever made. And we got into trouble quite quickly, because there is a thing called copyright laws, which, you know, young little me didn't actually realize. So it's funny how you go through these things in life and learn from that. So that was my first ever website. I played around with something called, I think it was like webs.com back in the day, and then I exposed myself first to Joomla, which was the in thing back then, before WordPress came around. And so these are both what we call a content management systems, essentially, just like a website builder. And so I got into that, too much coding, not too much coding. No,

04:18

I did do some of that, like, here and there. Like, for example, you know, when you want to change a certain thing on your website,

04:26

we call them cascade styling sheets. Gosh, this is going to be very technical, but, you know, CSS code essentially, like, for example, you want to change the color of a button, and it's being a bit stubborn. You can play around with that stuff. So I learned all those kind of things, but to be honest, I didn't go to school for that, like I learned that from, you know, just doing and also YouTube tutorials and watching things there and looking at how people did it and just playing around me stuff. So I was very curious, and I think that helped me in terms of, you know, developing what I wanted to do in life.

05:00

Health and also finding out stuff as well. And from there, it kind of landed into a career of starting a digital marketing agency, which was centered around my ethics as well. So it was an ethical digital marketing agency. And then at the same time, I was like, You know what? I'm doing this, but I also want corporate experience. Because I felt like, you know, if I'm going to walk the talk, I need to know what I'm actually doing full on, and especially in that space as well. So I deliberately, also, while studying, got into the corporate life and started my career that way too. And so I feel like the corporate experience, the I guess, philanthropy, and also my business kind of stuff all connects really well together and allows me to have kind of like that holistic kind of way of working, which I think is really good to have.

05:51

And so, yeah, I love that, and it's so different to my approach. And when we met, you were

06:00

working in corporate as well as running your own business. And I think I picked up on the corporate first, and then it was only, and maybe can share how we met, but it was only when we're walking along and chatting that, you know, it was like, Oh, you run a business. I run a business. And then we had awesome business chats. And that's, I think, how we kind of really connected. Yeah, definitely. Well, it was an Oxfam trek in Vietnam that I met Emma for the first time. And it's funny how the universe works in mysterious ways, I reckon. So, yeah, we were talking just as Emma was my, you know, pretty much tour guide to a manager at the time, and was really awesome. So I knew, you know, Emma knew her stuff and also cared for everyone quite well.

06:43

But yeah, we had a terrific time. And we just randomly started chatting, which I think was really cool, and just got to know each other. And from that moment on, I think we connected ever since. And you know, we haven't been able to separate from each other since. Then,

06:59

we do our meetings and and then I get charged for like 14 minutes. And I'm like, right? We were on the phone for like an hour. And he's like, Yeah, but we were talking like, which allocate the meeting is 10 minutes or 14 minutes, but we have to have an hour so that we can talk stuff, um, before, but, and that was the beauty of those tricks. So, yeah, amazing. You, raise money for Oxfam, and then, you know, so you know that the people there probably have a decent heart and care to give your time to raise money, but then also

07:33

to take on a challenge that's, you know, pushing yourself and you had done and you'd done others, and I hadn't had much chance to talk to you before, because part of my role at the time was also calling participants, and Ray had actively avoided my calls. It was all over, and he said, and I'm like, sure, sure, get there, and I'm like, fine. We did your fundraising to do training, fine. And then, you know, you don't really need, like, Okay, this guy, he's meeting people into that. And then, yes, having a day where we end up just position next to each other, and then we're walking for five to seven hours a day. And so you are, you can walk. We could talk for a number of hours to have that quality time to connect. I do remember that because, yeah, I was working at Bupa at the time, in the corporate space, and Emma was worried I wasn't going to achieve my fundraising goal, but I knew I had it sorted because I had the mind of, you know, I'm going to have a bake sale. These bake sales, they're pretty good, if you you promote them using marketing skills, and yeah, pretty much hit my fundraising goal from that bake sale by getting everyone involved.

08:35

And it wasn't,

08:37

oh yeah, it wasn't just selling on the floor, you know, you have to go out, get a little trolley, go through all the floors of the building and pretty much sell, sell, sell. So you know, as an entrepreneur, I think, inspired by Janine Ellis, you've just gotta get out there, right? You just gotta do the hard work, even if it means shaming yourself by going on each floor and just selling cakes all day, every day to raise money. I think, how do you say that you have that entrepreneurial spirit, but you also had, yes, being in a corporate makes it easier to fundraise. We've obviously got a tangent,

09:09

but you know, part of the book, The out of leisure, is about making money. And I also talk about those toileting days. And I think the people who are willing to try anything and to take that entrepreneurial mindset to fundraising do better, whereas

09:24

sometimes we do have business people come and business owners who probably could, out of their own pocket, pay the money, and we only chasing them up until the last day. You know, for me now, being in the position I'm in, I'd be reaching out to like, 30 friends, meaning like, give me 100 bucks. You know, like when I was 25 that was hard, because it was $20 donations, $25 donations, and it was bake sales and selling chocolates and

09:49

running events and not putting good margin on it, and learning very hard way. Now it's just like people get it and they're like, cool, I'll give you 50 bucks or 100 bucks, or, you know, I would have seven people a minute at work who could give five.

10:00

Of dollars. And it really shocks me. Then when these entrepreneurs, I'm like, I just don't know. I think they're just not asking, and maybe they're too focused in the business and, you know, and they sometimes just say to them, well, you're just going to have to pay out of your own pocket through, you know, making a donation, because you've committed to this money. But yeah, I think you can. I have definitely taken that making money I'll make, you know, and it's easier making money for me on behalf of the charity, it's easier. I'm like, give it. Give it, you know. Whereas with me, you know, in your business, you're like, Please buy my thing. Please do both. Said, I think you're bold. I think you do work quite well, right? Actually, yeah, I think I'm known for privately messaging people on Messenger all the time and saying, Hey, I'm fundraising for so and so. Can you help, you know, kind of chip in and in return, I usually create, you know, tiles in Canva to say, thank you. I think it's really important that no matter how much people actually donate, you actually give them that gratitude and that satisfaction, because that's part of the process, and they'll also admire you for it as well. So no matter, you know, if they give me $20 $50 whatever, I will create a tile and tag them, you know, within social media, and say thank you. And people love that. And it also gets extra attention towards your goals well. And it just, again, it's such a crossover with business. It's like, you know, yes, you've provided a service, and yes, they've paid you, and that's usually a transaction. But How nice is it when you say thank you, or, you know, with my retreats, I send a little gift, like a welcome gift, and then give you a little gift when you get there, and people are like, you don't need to get all we just recently held a retreat day, and Ray was my sponsor in Melbourne, and people just shocked that we were buying lunch for them, and it's like, one, it was included when you purchased your ticket, and two, he's the sponsor, and that was their agreement. And they were like, Oh, you're giving me stuff. Like, yeah, that's that's part of it, and it's so nice, and that's very normal and natural for me to say thank you. And gifting not so much. I've sort of acquired that, and I just, I didn't like the surprise and delight of it, but the thank you is so important, even if, even if the transaction was, I'll give you this. You do that saying thank you on top, amazing. Oh, it's awesome. I think, yeah. And people love that as they do, yeah. And having a thank you page when you purchase that sort of stuff. Like, how important is that, that, you know, making sure that people are recognized and acknowledged, and so we can learn a lot from our our fundraising, or we learn from our business to apply to our fundraising. Very good. Now we've already established that you love travel, and you do try to do it quite a lot,

12:40

maybe not quite as much as me, but definitely quite a bit. Why do you love travel? Oh, I think for me,

12:49

it has to be like, to be honest, my first ever overseas trip, or what I consider as real travel overseas. And the reason for that is because I think with overseas travel, you learn about cultures, you learn about different experiences, and you get new perspectives in life. And I think that's really healthy. And yes, it's important to travel in your own backyard and see, you know, the beauty of Australia, which I think is awesome, but I think it also adds that extra layer of, you know, curiosity and understanding of other cultures, when you do get to experience those kind of environments. So I think my first ever overseas trip was actually a cantiki trip to the US, and I was there for a whole month, and it was because my sister forced me to go in the kind way and said, you know this, you've got to do you've got to do it yourself. And I was one of those people that was really introverted, to be honest, surprise, surprise. And was horrified at the fact that I was going to a whole new country I knew no one, and yet it was actually one of the, you know, most amazing experiences of my life. And from that moment on, I think I caught what you know, most people call the travel bug, and was just loving the fact that, you know, you could have these opportunities. And from there, you know, went from the US to then going to a Europe trip and finding, you know, really great friends that you almost feel like you've had them for life,

14:14

and experiencing those kind of environments. I think, yeah, it's just that kind of thing that brings it all together.

14:21

It's sort of, it shocks me that, you know, I can see, I can see the introversion, but it does shock it. You've said to me before that you struggled to have conversation. I was like, why do we talk so long then why don't we chat so much? Like, this is not my experience

14:40

of people like you can't, not talk to me,

14:44

but yeah, it was very

14:47

interesting to learn. But how have you managed to include travel in your work? I see it as a reward, you know, for hard work, really, and something that you must do. And.

15:00

Least once a year, you know, to go out there and experience something new, because it is that practice of kind of self care, essentially right? Because you're looking after yourself, you're getting to do something fun and different. And that triggers all sorts of emotions and experiences. And even if you go away, you know, on travel and something bad happens, you know, maybe you lose your wallet or something like that. There's always something to learn by something to be grateful for. So I think, you know, balancing work with travel, it is possible. You just have to set a goal and really what you want to aspire to achieve. And literally, as I'm talking to you right now, I've got on my screen a vision board which shows me the places that I want to get to, you know, so that I can aspire. For example, I really love the Virgin brand and what it stands for in terms of its values. And so I really want to go on a virgin voyages cruise and experience, you know, the Mediterranean, perhaps, and see that from that kind of snapshot as well.

16:08

Love it. And speaking of virgin, you really included travel in your work. Can you tell us about that? Yes. So when I was in corporate, I realized, you know, I had an epiphany, almost, where it was, like, I really want to do this kind of thing that I've put on my bucket list for such a long time. And so that thing was to actually be cabin crew for Virgin Australia. And like I said, I love the Virgin brand, you know, the fact it's all about making customers. You know, experiences so much better, so much easier, more innovative, but they also care deeply about the impact that they make. And so, you know, so Richard Branson has done a lot for philanthropy and foundations, you know, even from Virgin Unite and stuff like that. So I just made sure, yeah, I'll give it a go. I didn't expect to get in. To be honest, I created a video, which, you know, you had to create a video to say why you wanted to join virgin and so I got creative and got my soft toys, yes, soft toys, laid them on the bed and then pretended to serve them tea in this video and highlighted, you know, the importance around customer satisfaction and showing Your virgin flair. And I think that video resonated quite well with the recruitment team, because it didn't take them long to contact me and want me to work for them. So I think, yeah, I'll never forget that. And the moment of working for Virgin, because, yeah, traveling to different destinations, like one moment, you know, you're in Perth, the next minute, you're in Darwin, and experiencing all sorts of things, and the Gold Coast, which gave me a benefit of visiting Emma as well. So you know, you would be overnight for maybe one night, maybe two nights in some destinations, but you would also share those experiences with random people, because a lot of people don't realize when your crew you actually don't know each other,

18:02

and so every time you fly, pretty much every day, unless you're on a trip which will last for a few days, you're going to get totally different people, and they're not even all from your area. They might actually be from another state. And I think, as an introvert, that's like a rip off the band aid, because you've got to, like, communicate with them. You've got to work with them effectively in, you know, an ever changing environment. So I think it just brings that kind of thrill of the adventure, which I think is what I love, even though, yeah, that is that kind of communication side to it as well.

18:38

So I love how I mean, for me, work is out making money.

18:44

I work to live. I don't live to work. But I think, like what I'm hearing from you, and I know that you like, aim to live, but it's like the way that you've approached your work is not just a money thing like and you finish the corporate you left the corporate role to do the Virgin role, but you kept the business running the whole time. So then what's your attitude? Then, sort of, to making money and to taking a like, it's definitely, I know, from your business, like you're so ethics driven,

19:17

but it feels like the work itself is an experience for you? Yeah, definitely. And you know, you meet all sorts of people, and you know different clients, and everyone has different ambitions in life. And I think what's most rewarding is when you see the difference that you make to someone. So you know, for example, even your site, Emma, the fact that you know you loved it is so satisfying for me to know that, you know, I've done something that has actually helped you and grown your business, and something that excites you, and I think that's something you can't take away. And I do remember when I was flying, you know, for example, we would be on trips, and some of the crew would be like, Oh, I'm so exhausted. I'm just going to go in my room and watch TV. And I was like, oh, yeah, I.

20:00

Just going to answer some client emails and build a website or something, and then look at me a bit funny and be like, What are you doing?

20:07

So it was kind of funny how, you know, different people have different ways of doing things, but for me, I don't know, I feel like I've got that energy, kind of bunny energy, where it's like, I just like to do things, you know, I don't, you only here for so long in terms of the planet as a visitor. And I think I stole that from the Dalai Lama. I've got a quote somewhere in the room. But you know, you're only here as a visitor for so long, so make it count, right? Every single moment. Make it count. So I think that's important, and that's why, when I jumped out of a helicopter in Switzerland, safely, of course, considering I'm alive, I made sure I said YOLO, which means you only live once. And that's actually on my luggage. I put that on my luggage, that acronym, that saying, because it is true, you only live once, so you gotta make it count every day.

20:57

I love it. Do you? I mean, it's sounding like, but, you know, you can answer, did you actually set out to travel and work? Was that ever an intention? No,

21:08

I think it was by mistake. Like, you don't know these things, like when I was growing up, you know, I came from essentially a home in pretty much Western Sydney, where I was not exposed to travel at all like my my family was not well off. I don't think even my mom or dad had really traveled that much, to be honest, because we didn't have a lot of money back then, and I had no idea even, you know, thinking about travel, I think for us, travel was a road trip, you know, in the car, and we would go to some park or get a boat house, if we were lucky, and that was exciting for us at the time, so I had no idea that this would happen. And, you know, just by being exposed to it, I think you kind of open up and go, Oh, wow, this is actually possible,

21:55

and it's beneficial, not just for me, but for other people as well.

21:59

Yeah, absolutely. And what would your advice be to someone? Oh, I'm sorry. I just want to touch on that. I think now I see you traveling one in the personal development service of obviously you came on my retreat, but also with conferences. I'm seeing you attending a lot of business events. So travel,

22:22

you know, it sounds like earlier in your career, it was, you know, sort of more that corporate attitude of, like, I get holidays even though you run your business, but you I got holidays, and I use the time to have a break and to explore, whereas now you're able to incorporate the travel a little bit. Yeah, definitely. And, you know, for example, one of my friends, Marianne, who we partnered up with some projects from wise up marketing. She runs, well, only just started recently. It was a Sydney networking event which is held in, I think, the mezzanine, which is the building that business chick zones from memory, in Sydney. And so it was the first ever event. I said, Marion, I'm going to make sure I can go there. Um, so I traveled to Sydney. And whilst traveling to Sydney, it also happened to be perfect, because it was the week that we had the awards night, and I could also visit my family. So it was just perfect, really, three things in one trip, and I was only there for a few days, and I also squeezed in work. And that might sound like too much, but it actually wasn't. There was still time to relax and spend time with family and stuff like that. And I think when you look at that and go, Oh, wow, it is possible. You just make it work and it's beneficial. That's the pleasure life, baby. Yeah. So

23:42

what would be your advice for someone looking to include more travel in your work or life?

23:48

Yeah, I would say, set a goal for yourself and also be clear in terms of what it is that you want to achieve. Like, is it, you know, a trip in Australia? Is it a destination in Australia that you really want to go to, is it somewhere overseas, and then why you want to go there? Like, what benefit does it actually serve to you? And how you can connect the dots? Because if you do that, you might find that that's a really great way. And then sort of a plug for whatever does. But, like, if you really want to travel overseas and integrate it within, you know, what you do in terms of your working life or even your business, those kind of you know, business retreats are really good as well, because you are mixing the the leisure life with business. So pleasure, um, you know, together, and you're also meeting people as well. So it just ticks so many boxes to have those opportunities, and often they're in destinations that you probably may not have gone to alone. So they give you those opportunities. And that's why I was really excited to go to India, because it wasn't my back, at least, but I always knew, well, I'm not 100% sure about that place you know for myself, to go.

25:00

So. But the fact that Emma was going, I knew straight away it was going to be great, because in my experience, Emma knows her stuff, right? She knows everything about travel. She knows which spots are really great, how to look after you, and so you're in good hands. So when it comes to those things, you know, Sign me up. I think I was, you know, one of the first signers, which surprised me, and it challenged me slightly in a good way, because a lot of my marketing in you know, you've done, my website is targeted women. And I do get that comment sometimes of, don't you work with men? Or do you work with men? And I'm like, Of course I do. I work with Ray, but I work with if clients. You know, one of my earliest personal branding clients was a man who saw on LinkedIn, you know, he just approached like came in at a different way. I think a target. You have to have a target. You don't have to, sorry, ideally, you have a target audience or an ideal client in mind. What I loved was that you saw my page which had women written all over it. And my photos are women, and, you know, I'm a woman in them, you know my audience. But you just were like, I want to go to India. I'm going on the retreat. I'm going to go. And I was never going to be like, No, you can't come, right? Like, you can't

26:12

go. You can't come because you're a man. It just made me go, Oh, I love that. You know, even my dad's asked me, I've had a few male colleagues, and they're like, it just feels like you really I said, I think typically women don't do these things for themselves, and they need it. But, you know, maybe that's short sighted of me, and there are more men who need it and don't see themselves in it. And I'm really keen to explore that space. So what I did was change my language on the page to be people. And so I talk about people, which goes against the niching but, but I'm very clear in my who's it for? So it's people who want to do this, people who want to change, people who want adventure, people who aren't just looking to get private coaching. They're looking to have a group experience. You know, I'm talking about the type of person. And so even though I'm saying people, it's you don't have to just niche on on gender or on location or on age, like you can niche on the type of person. And I think you would agree, the people that we attracted onto that were the were all the right type of people, because they saw themselves in that. And so I'm really grateful to you for helping me to see that differently and to shift my marketing, especially as I step more into this blister. And then for the book I want. I want guys to get as much out of it as women I want to talk to. I want whoever sees themselves in it, you know, and that's my final line. Is, if you, if you think this is for you, it's for you, and you saw past that. I do want to ask you a question I didn't have, and it's up to you, but you are a member of the LGBTQIA plus community. I loved that you brought your partner, Mike, and we got to know him, and he came as on the retreat too. So we had a beautiful group.

27:58

Have you ever had challenges anywhere you've traveled, or has that ever held you back?

28:05

Yes, I think so. Because, you know, not all parts of the world are obviously inclusive, and so often you'll have to research those things. And I think you're also a bit cautious as well. So even, you know, in India, it's interesting. Like, I think in, you know, with the drivers, for example,

28:25

you could quite clearly see that we were kind of together. But for some of them, we were like, oh yes, we're friends. We're friends. And I think it was actually one driver which really surprised us, and his name was Anil, and he was our last driver of the trip, and just out of nowhere, he was like, oh, yeah, all your friends. Okay, no worries. And then, you know, he just randomly said, oh, you know, I've got friends of all sorts. I've I've got gay friends. I've got, you know, friends that live together and stuff like that. And because he made that comment, he didn't imply that we were that way, right? But he made that comment to kind of give us that hint to say, I'm inclusive, you know, I'm actually accepting of who you are, as a person, your full self, and so this is a safe space, and so you don't necessarily have to ask the question directly to someone and say, you know, are you gay, right? Cuz that actually can be quite off putting, and particularly if someone has not, you know, said that publicly, it can be quite embarrassing for them. But also, you know, cause a bit of stress as well. And I've been in those situations many years ago, you know, when I was growing up, and it's not one to like, right? So when someone says that without implying something, it's a really nice gesture, even if, for example, you know, when you think about your website, right, proudly diverse, or you put in the rainbow flag or something on those lines, it just.

30:00

Indicates to people that you are inclusive and you accept them, and that makes them more likely to come to you as well. And so, yeah, I feel like there is that element of fear still or being a bit cautious, but then when people create that safe space for you, you go, you know what? Wow. This is amazing. This is really nice gesture. So I think, yeah, with Anil, I ended up actually writing a nice little letter to say thank you for what he did. And, you know, we messaged on WhatsApp as well, and it was really interesting to hear his story, and you know, about his family and how life is for him, you know, in India, and how it can be quite tough, because obviously there's a huge population, and you don't necessarily get the opportunities that we get in the Western world, for example, you know, we're very lucky. We can choose different paths and go on different adventures and go like that. But for a lot of people in the developing countries, they don't have that liberty or those opportunities, and so it's very hard for them. You know, some people are often put in one job position, and that's it for the rest of their life. That's how their society works. So I think understanding that and realizing that is really important. And at the same time, I think it's important to say that, you know, for those people that didn't say anything that, like Anil said, I think I still understand where they're coming from, because when you go to these new countries, the culture, the background, it's very different, and the understanding is different as well. And people are only exposed to what they get exposed to in life. And so you know, if you come across someone that doesn't say those things, like Anil does, it doesn't mean that they don't love you or don't accept you for who you are, it just might mean that they haven't experienced that. They don't have knowledge of that, and so they don't know how to have those conversations. And that's why, I think, as a society, particularly, even when we travel, we have to have an open mind, and we have to be respectful to one another as well.

32:01

Yeah, and like you said, maybe just, you know, approaching that questions with a little more delicacy if you need to.

32:10

I did bring up, I did bring it up with my colleague, Pankaj, to ask if it would be an issue at all. And he said, No, we've had, we've had gay couples come before. It's not a problem for us. I think if somebody, if it did become a problem, and it was one of our staff, we would action it,

32:27

which made me really happy to hear, but I'd never, oh, no, actually, that's a lot. We had a, we had a gay a couple of years ago, but I just, you know, I just wanted to think about because, unfortunately, I do know that it's not always safe, but you know, then I had as well challenged in that I just was like, do I need to, because people assume that my retreats are women, did I then need to go to all the attendees and go, Hey, there's a man coming. It's just like, it's Ray It's fine. But I don't think I should have to, like, I've said in my messaging, if somebody's made the assumption, I don't think I have to declare, because somebody could come and they're a psychiatrist, and somebody's I don't like psychiatrists, and it's like, well, I can't meet like part of it, like you said, is expecting the unexpected. It's open being open. It's being receptive. And I think, I hope that I'm quite clear in my messaging about who I am and what is on the retreat that you're that's what I'm trying to provide is openness and learning and opportunity. And you know, so I think if I would hope that people would come, do have that more openness, and if they don't, I I'm skilled enough, I think, to hold that space. So I don't think I need to publicly declare, but you've reminded me of an action put on our our money to do things, Bray, put your work hat on. We have to get that flag on my website, because you helped me to get my acknowledgement on the country, on acknowledgement of country, which a lot of people, that's really led the way for a lot of my clients and colleagues, except, Oh, I loved how you did that. How do I do it? We do an acknowledgement of country on my podcast. It's very important. I wrote my acknowledgement of country of the day for the book. And I felt really lovely about that. It's just it's such a simple thing to do, but I think, yeah, having the flag on the website,

34:10

the

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colorful flag, all the flags, if so many, I'd love to have that. I want people to know that they that I'm a safe space, and that if they see themselves in the work, they can come, yeah, definitely. It's just a little signal, which is a nice gesture in it. You know, it's really good to see. So I'm

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going to do a quick few five questions before we wrap up. I think I know the answer to this. It's quite a loaded question. But do you think the bleacher life is possible and sustainable? Yes, yeah, definitely. And there's ways that you can offset your carbon footprint, but also reduce it. For example, you can go and travel by train rather than having an airplane every time. So it is definitely possible. It's so interesting because I've had.

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To define this sustainable a few times lately, because I want to have, you know, I care about sustainability, but we've talked about, I'm not going to like your business is clearly sustainable and very eco oriented. You know that I include sustainability and I care about it, but I said I'm not going to go out as like, I'm sustainable. But the funny thing is that I use sustainability in my messaging, but I mean sustainability in terms of longevity for you and like, is it possible to keep doing it for a long time? And so there's two way. There's there's two meanings to sustainability. I do want pleasure to be sustainable and unconscious people to make potentially an environmental impact. But I also want to see people be able to do this for a long time and not think, you know, I gotta do all the travel now, because I don't have like, then I've gotta work, you know, like, or, you know, work, work, work, travel, travel, travel. Like, to me, the marrying the pleasure means that you can do both for a long time because you're not feast or feminine on it, and ultimately not destroying the planet too well. Yes, yeah. See, my my version of sustainable goes straight to sustainability, but I get what you're saying as well. And I think it is possible. But again, you've got to be clear in terms of what it is that you want to achieve. And then also, I think you said this as well when we're in India on the retreat, you know, you might have had a goal and said, I'm going to achieve it in this many years, but then it ended up being a few years later. So what right? As long as you know, you did your all and tried to achieve what you wanted to achieve, that's what matters. That's what counts. So

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yeah, and I have this message, which message of like, there is time, like, give yourself time. I've had to learn that over the years, but also be mindful of of the limitation of time. And so it's like, give yourself time. You can do the things, but also choose what's really important in the time that we have. And so yeah, the goal might take you two years, but at least you're working towards something that's really important to you, and not just doing the other stuff or doing the way because and so how do you for me, the sustainability leans into the self care element, or the balance, or the harmony, or whatever you want to call it. How do you make time for self care, or find some I always put this inverted commas balance in your schedule. I think self care for me is two areas. The first one is making sure I have exercise. And, you know, that's surprising even for myself, because when I was growing up, I never saw myself as someone that would love exercise. Or, you know, I always thought it had to be an athlete. Essentially, you had to be athletic to achieve stuff. But nowadays, you know, I go to the gym every morning at 530 and doesn't need to look like that for other people. But, you know, I go to the gym every day, five days a week. I then do my swimming. On the weekend, I do a run,

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and I do that as part of my self care, because, you know, it gives you a healthy body, but it also gives you a healthy mind. And I feel like they're all connected. And to be honest, every time I exercise and then go home, have a shower, these ideas that come to me, like, honestly, I don't know where they come from, but it's amazing how that little bit of endorphins really can, like, set you off and go, Oh, have I thought about this or doing this or doing that? So it's a really great way to do that, but it doesn't have to look like you. You know for that, you could easily just go for a walk in the day, make sure you're getting enough sunlight, vitamin D and exercise. Can be just walking. It can also be doing something that you really enjoy, like even playing BOE balls or lawn bowls. You know, the sport that I used to do when I was a kid was temping bowl, not footy or anything like that. That was my sport. I did it professionally and won awards and all that stuff. Surprise, surprise. But, yeah, I think that's important. And the second side of self care is, you know, rewarding yourself and making that time you know, going to have that massage, or even doing a facial at home, right? Just having that that moment to yourself, or even meditation, like, for example, using the Buddha fi app. You know, there's a free app you put on your phone, set out 10 minutes, and just listen to that and be present in the moment. I think that that's key, right? Because there's so much going on in the world, and if you scroll through your social media, you'll be there forever. So it's important to take that time away, switch off and reconnect, you know, to the whole purpose of your life as well.

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No, I love it. I love it. I always love your perspective. Ray, now, easy or challenging question, final question, do you what is your dream destination to work in?

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Oh, yeah, when I saw this one, it was, it was funny, because I looked at it and I was like, for me,

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you know, I don't even consider it as working because it's like, I'm enjoying the time that I'm there. Yes, I'll.

40:00

Put in some work here and there in between, but, yeah, like, what would be my dream destination to work in? Oh, wow. This is a tough one, to be honest. And even though I've seen the question, I don't even know how to answer it. That's terrible.

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You know, I think would be really cool actually seeing the Northern Lights. I'm not sure I'd sneak work in at that point in time, but to be able to see that, because I recently missed the Aurora lights, or whatever you want to call it, within Australia.

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So I missed that. But, you know, I think that that is pretty cool. No, you know what I read, I edit that. I think Antarctica is actually even cooler.

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But this is a funny this is why the question is so tricky, right? Because my dream destination is Antarctica.

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That's my gift for my 40th so I'm like, I don't want to work there. And I mean, it never you know. I'm basically like, content creator, writing about travel. Everything can be work, but I really want to go and be present and enjoy it, and I'll probably write about it, document it, use the content later. But I was like, Yeah, I quickly corrected myself, and I was like, Where do I want to work and what type of work? So it's something like, is it speaking in New York? Is it writing my book on the beach in Mexico? Is it just doing normal, everyday work on a cruise ship. Like, what does it is a tricky one. It is, and even though I've got, you know, the Mediterranean stuff on my vision board, but that's like, that's not my ultimate dream destination. That's like, you know, in in the future, in a few years time, kind of thing. But I think, yeah, Antarctica is a pretty cool place. And also, you know, it's just, you hear about it all the time, so being able to see it, I think, would be really important, and how it connects to the rest of the world, and to see it for your own eyes would be pretty remarkable. It does scare me a bit as well, but I think that's a good thing. Yeah, a little bit of fear. We love, a little bit of fear. Can we'll put maybe I should put an episode together of all of your answers, because everybody's been so stumped by this one of, like, dream destination to work in. That's the tricky thing. The DJ says, like, oh yeah, I want to go to the mall, dad, so do I want to work there? Do I want to work there? Is that a whole, like, arguing with themselves? I'm just loving seeing the like

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spiral anyway, I'm mean, I adore you. I'm so grateful for you. I love how you challenge me and how you give me new perspectives. I'm so excited to do more work and travel with you. There's so many opportunities for us. You're still on my wall. Gotta post it. I'm still manifesting you for Sri Lanka. So just buy his services so he can come with me. Please.

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Thank you. We'll put everything in the show notes. Final, final, sign off. Rad. Oh, thank you so much, Emma. It's been great. And yeah, I think you know, at the end of the day, pleasure is definitely possible. It all comes down to having clear intentions and also be purpose driven in your life and business. Here you go. Just nailed it. Just nailed the key message, I adore you. Thank you. Can't wait for people to listen to this and to read your story in the book your incredible Ray. And as I said it, extremely grateful for you in my life. Thank you very much. And likewise, I.