Elena Gabrielle: The life of a traveling comedian

Speaker 1 0:03

welcome to the podcast and to the book, Elena Gabriel. Hi. Now we've been having a pretty blurry chat offline. So hopefully we can touch on some of those things because yeah, we basically, definitely there's Elena was the first person I wanted to get for these case studies. I think you and one other person would like to have other voices in this book, and to talk about the art of bleisure. With the people because you are living it, and you're doing it. But you're also I know that I come out of anybody, I could talk to you and you would get it like other people are like, Oh, poor, you. You're in India. You're like, I guess it's time zones? All those things? Yeah.

Speaker 2 0:46

Yeah. Yeah, I think it's yeah, like we're just saying, because I'm jet lagged at the moment. I think you're jet lag. Like, it's just a constant state of always on the move, like, and so yeah, I guess I we get each other I think he's trying to say. So

Speaker 1 1:00

I'll start with one question. And then I reckon we'll actually it is a question I didn't put in, which is the sacrifices and I think we should talk about that. But first of all, what's your job?

Speaker 2 1:09

What do you what do you do? What do you do? Yeah, no, it's like, it's like when you see you go to a cafe, like in Bali or around and like, there's just all these people working on laptops. And like, I always think like, what do you do? Like, what is your job like? So I am a stand up comedian slash producer as well. So I basically produce my own shows, I traveled the world doing comedy shows. So, so far in like, over 6567 countries, I've performed in numerous cities, and I've been doing this lifestyle now for the better half of like, seven to eight years like a youth. So yeah, that's, that's it. So I spread, joy and laughter hopefully, all around the world, or in the countries that I go to at least

Speaker 1 1:55

until you get to tell dick jokes all around the world. Yeah,

Speaker 2 1:59

I mean, this is sometimes in countries where probably shouldn't be. But you know, it's fun. It's fun. We just keep going, basically. And it works so far.

Speaker 1 2:11

I just Yeah, I think it's so again, it was so you were like my first thought because I think it's just so remarkable what you've done. I love that you are able to stay that that your job is stand up comedian, I think there's lots of like, I want to be a kinda I'm doing other things, the fact that you have made it your career, but also the producing bit because I think there's a lot of I met I used to Well, I really met Elena through the comedy but I we work together in promo, which is a big part of the book, my

Unknown Speaker 2:38

primary, my models shout out

Speaker 1 2:42

a way of making very flexible income. But then we met at the Melbourne Comedy Festival. And I think in that industry, there's a lot of woe is me. No one's giving me opportunities. So you being a producer, and creating a stage literally creating stage for yourself from

Speaker 2 3:00

it. Like I mean, it's very different. I think a lot more people are doing it now. I mean, I've always, so I've been performing to like, I mean, since I finished university, so 15 years, it's been I think it'll be 16 years this year. God sounds so old. But so when I finished I studied at NIDA, I did musical theater. And then pretty much when I was 19, I, I self produced my own cabaret, like an hour long cabaret. So and then, since then, I've been doing that I did my first international tour. So I was obviously touring in Australia, doing my own cabaret shows and things like that. But when I was 21, I got a Disney to up where I went to Indonesia, with with a company and Australian company, and they took me over and I just remember thinking like, this is what I want to do. I just want to travel the world I want to perform. And I think I grew up in a family. That's very, we had a family business, like very self sufficient, like, very independent. And I think I learned a lot from that. So then that yeah, I just I think that plus my comedy, I was like, Oh, I can, but it took a while. Obviously it takes a while it took you know, about a half of maybe eight or nine years for me to kind of figure out exactly how to do it. And now it's still not easy, but it's yeah, it's been pretty much full time for that. Yeah, but it's seven to eight years, I guess. Yeah, doing this.

Speaker 1 4:25

So yeah, that's that's really cool to know that like really early on, you could see the option or the possibility for travel even though you didn't know how it was going to look. But exactly that and it's funny because I think then sometimes you do get like you get okay so that not maybe you didn't think like this, but you're the only way to do it or this is the way to do it the contract. So forget contract after contract or, you know, as a performer, I guess you could have got like cruise ships and things like that, like there are ways to travel as a performer. But then that's kind of locked in right. There's not that much flexibility in that.

Speaker 2 4:57

Yeah, and I guess I mean, I came from Studying musical theater and musical theater. For me, it was just like what I wanted to do. It was like, you know, I was obsessed with it. I did theater all, like my high school. Like when I was a kid, I loved it. And then I think when I studied it, and I got out, I was like, Oh, like that, again, is almost like a full time job. It's like you go into the theater, you do six shows a week, like it's the same thing, blah, blah, blah. And I think once I kind of realized that, that and I started discovering cabaret, and you know, the fringe circuit, and that you can kind of self produce your own stuff. It really made me kind of go like, Oh, there's a way to do this, like, on your own. I didn't, I didn't think it was possible to do it. So International, like, I'd heard about the Edinburgh Fringe, and how a lot of Australian performers would go over and do that, which again, is self producing. And then when I moved to Berlin, like eight years ago, I started producing there. And once I kind of go, I went like, oh, so I'm producing in Berlin, I produced in Edinburgh, produced in Australia, and like, maybe it's not that hard, like, maybe it is possible. And I think, now a lot more people are doing it post COVID. Because a lot more people, you know, comedies a lot more. I mean, it used to be very big, and obviously English speaking countries, but now it's very popular all around the world. Thanks to COVID. So that was a good thing that came out of COVID for comics. But so yeah, it's like you're always going to find an audience in basically any city that you go to where there's at least 50 English speakers that all want to hear a comedy show. So yeah, it's a it's the definitely the past path less traveled. Because we are taught to have agents to have, you know, but you end up waiting so much, and there's so much competition. And then there's always a new person that comes through and then you're left behind. So I just think it's, I mean, as comedians, we're all always like, independent. We're always working by yourself. It's like, it just made more sense to be like, okay, like, let's just do it without anyone. And there's less overheads and business wise, like, it makes more sense, financially to a certain point. But yeah, I don't know. It's just, it's nice to have that freedom as well. To choose where you want to go and what you want to do. It's,

Speaker 1 7:15

I love when you said it's not that hard. I said it to someone else that I did a case study with Linda Alexander. And I was like, which I was like, I think it's my belittle your entire message. She teaches freelance writing, but it was like, looking at like Elle Woods, like, like, it's not that hard. Like, is it hard? Yeah. No, it's like, yeah, I think it's not necessarily hard. I think it's just that there's I said, I don't think it's hard. I think that it takes work. And it takes persistence. And it takes, like keeping at it. I mean, you gotta be good at what you do. But I think yeah, sometimes there was barriers in that entertainment industry. So that that made it hard that those have been broken down. But then there was always examples of people doing it. So some people were like, it's hard. It's like, well, no, you maybe you just tried a few times, and it didn't work.

Speaker 2 8:02

Yeah, and that's the thing, like with any business, you know, you talk to any business owner, the first two years of a business is always the hardest, like, you know, you might have a good for the start, and then it like drops or whatever. And it's like, it's the longevity in in keeping at it. And I think maybe there's an element of delusion to it, as well. But, you know, I was trying to give some advice to another comic who asked me recently, and I think there's this thing where we always want like, the biggest thing now, you know, it's like, oh, I want I want to play theaters. I want the big I want to be famous. And yeah, of course, it is possible. Now if you get a viral tick tock, and you're doing like this kind of stuff, it is that is possible to do, it is possible to get that really crazy level of fame quicker than what it would have taken before. But I think you always have to start smaller, you know, especially if you're doing it yourself, which is what I did this is, you know, pre Tiktok pre Instagram reels and all this kind of stuff where you just sort of had to start with a small venue and test it and yeah, you lose money at the beginning, of course, like, like any business, it's a tax write up, but then over time, you see that, you know, kind of grow hopefully, and you learn as well, like, you can't just give up you can't just be like, Okay, well that show didn't work or like for me now. Like, I know where my market is, I know where I sell. I know like basically how things are gonna go. So that's a trial and error. Like there's some cities I don't really sell very well in and then there's others that I do so, you know, it's that thing of just for me, I always go like go where you're celebrated, not tolerated, like and it's like, what that's the thing that definitely motivates me in terms of producing.

Speaker 1 9:48

I love that you write it down. Well, you know, I think I will say and this is not a reflection of you, Elena is amazing. I love witnessing your career and as you were speaking, I was like We met in probably 2011. And then Oh 12 Yeah, I saw you, Justin 12 would have been. And then I saw you in the 2013 I think Melbourne Comedy Festival, and I think we had Oh, no, no, no. Yeah. All right. It was either 2012 2013 But you're the promo. So we reconnected the comedy festival, but then it was 2014 Melbourne Comedy Festival where there was a little crew of a cat. Yes, Lauren Bach, you may remember getting or the final night and it was just so nice. Being together being people would work the whole festival. I worked on the producer side and PR side. You guys were performing. And it's really nice to like, celebrate. And then later that year went to Edinburgh and we hung out in Edinburgh. Well, you will perform and I got to see you do that was

Speaker 2 10:47

back in. Was that back in Alia or was that? Yeah, with doing a? Yeah.

Speaker 1 10:51

Yeah. And it was so amazing to see the gilded balloon, right? Yeah,

Speaker 2 10:55

two o'clock in the morning that show finished to get to two o'clock this morning.

Speaker 1 11:00

It was awesome. And then that was 2014. And this is 10 years later. And in November 2023, October 2020. Now it's November, we were in the pool in the Taj Mahal Palace. Yeah, in Mumbai, you're performing comedy. I'm working with the travel business about to run my retreat. You're playing with my son in the pool. And it's like, little, little people look how far we've come.

Speaker 2 11:26

Just, I know. It's so funny. Like, it's like, but I think that's also, you know, I went back to Melbourne recently for the Comedy Festival, and to do a filming for Channel Seven. Like I did this like, thing. And I was like, looking around at like all of the comedy shows. And there was a lot of people that I used to perform with or that I would see. And like, I just was like, Oh, they're not doing comedy anymore. Like, and it's yeah, it was kind of really interesting. Like my old comedy partner, I thought that he would still be doing stuff, but I didn't see him there. And it was like, it's quite sad, because I think, I mean, unless they're taking a break or whatever, but there is a big drop off, I find that people either just, you know, it's it's tough. It's tough. And if you don't, quote unquote, make it in your eyes, or like, whatever that looks like to you then. Yeah, it's, it's not. It's not easy.

Speaker 1 12:19

But I would say and I was gonna say before, before I was just wanted to, like, reflect on our journey. But um, you, this is not a reflection on you. But I think sometimes, and I say even about myself, you don't have to be the best. And I think sometimes with entertainment and the arts, sometimes we like put on the artist and put the art. And I'm like, Yeah, okay, it's an art and it's a craft. But it's also a business. And there was no, I remember, there was an artist at one of the festivals where we went around, and he would kind of shit on her because there were like, she's not the best. And I was like, but she's out there. She's on shows. And she's promoting. And she's getting tickets sold. And she's in she's showing up and she's doing it. So I don't know, like, well done her, you know. So?

Speaker 2 13:02

Yeah. And I mean, jealousy is rife in the comedy community, like you see it, I see it a lot. And at the end of the day, like, it's one of those things where I think artists don't really see it that way. Because I think we are pitted sometimes as a competition. Like, it's like, you know, who's going to win the award this year at the Comedy Festival? Or who's going to do that. And I think for us, it's always like, we have to be, we have to have the best show. And it's got to be the best show. But I think I saw a meme once that was like, you know, an audience's perspective where it's just like, you know, there's not, there's not one, like it was like a photo of a I don't know, an audience member like with a cake. And it was like, they're like, Yay, a cake. What an amazing cake. And then it's like, oh, another amazing cake. They're not sad, that they're like, you know, like, there's, there's just not one favorite cake that that said, it's like, oh, as an audience, like you're getting, you're getting so many shows, and they're all so different. And they're like, Yay, cake, like, using the analogy of cake as a show, like, and I thought it was really interesting, because it was like, Yeah, we do pet it sometimes each other. You know, we're like, oh, like, you know, her show is better than mine. And I'm not good enough or like, whatever. But at the end of the day, like yeah, if you're out there and you're doing it, that's all that matters. And I think, yeah, there's a lot of people in the industry that like will sit back and be like, oh, like she's not that funny or whatever. But like you said, like, they're selling tickets out there. They're doing it and a lot of comics. I find the most the, if you ask a comic who their favorite comic is, it'll generally be that one guy at an open mic every week that don't that is just so hilarious to a comedian, but they'll never be famous because they're like either too. Arty like they're too in the artist thing. And I think most of the good comedians are ones that have, they might like Kevin Hart, like, I'm gonna say this like thing, but he's not the best. I mean, he can do kind of stuff but he has the business mindset. And it's you have to market yourself and that's all ticularly nowadays, it's like you have to go out there and you have to market yourself with Instagram with tick tock like, or with all this sort of stuff to make people want to see you. And George Carlin, I think, said it, it was like 70% of being a good comic is getting the audience to like you. And once they like you. That's your job. 70% done.

Speaker 1 15:18

Yeah. Yeah, it's really interesting to see and say that producing shows, and I was a producer, and I still don't really know what it's like, that's what I feel like, it's such a broad term, and you just do everything, but you just

Speaker 2 15:32

produce like, you just go like, yeah, like,

Speaker 1 15:35

it was like my job. You're like, what do you do when I'm like, I'm going to look for things and you know, emotional support came in. I don't know, the PR, but Adobe Edge. Lots of

Speaker 2 15:45

everything. It's like, you gotta be a psychologist, like an accountant. Like everything, you just got to tick all the boxes for everything. But I love that as well. Because it's always a challenge. Like, I mean, as a self producer, I don't I mean, I have one person who works for me like a personal assistant. But I don't technically have to manage too many people. I don't think I'd be very great at that. One is one is enough. And I managed to do that. Okay. But yeah, but it's like, you just have to be everything like, and that's yeah, that's a challenge that I love is about it as well. Like, it's more keeps you on your toes, I think.

Speaker 1 16:21

And I think I love that as well about, um, you know, the other thing about the income reflection, and this happens in all types of types of businesses is sometimes you see these sexy, shiny, big businesses or you see like, yeah, that comedian who's got like, 500 people in an in a theater, but there's a lot of costs that go with that 500 person, a theater, so, and I say, with retreats, too, like I know, somebody had a 50 person retreat, which I said, that's a conference, not a retreat, but anywho I had 11 people, and we made the same profit, you know, much rather manage 11 people than 50. And it's like, you're obviously profitable, or making money at least to keep going, if you're able to have been doing it for what not only 15 years, but say, for the last eight or nine years as you're, you know, traveling the world.

Speaker 2 17:07

I think that's it's like it's also yeah, like I was having this conversation with the comic yesterday. And I think it depends on what you want. As a as a performer. I mean, I'm talking purely in comedy, but like a lot of comedians, like I want to be famous, I want to have a Netflix special I want like this. And I mean, that's great. It's great to have goals. I'm not like saying that, but you know, I've opened for a lot of big comedians, I've seen it. And you know, in 1000, couple of 1000s. See the venue's and then as a producer, I put my producer hat on, I'm like, okay, they're paying for their agent, they're paying for this, they're paying for the promoter, they're paying for blood security, they're paying for like all of this. And then I'm like, actually, how much would you walk away from? And obviously, it's not always about money, because obviously you do want that kind of like that accolade and the level of fame and like whatever. But I mean, most comics just want to be it's like the goalposts. goalposts, always moving, I guess, is what I'm also trying to say is like, you know, because you can be like, I want to be a full time comic. And then once you get a full time comic, it's like, cool, I want to, you know, I want to open for this comic, okay, cool, then you do that, then it's like, I want to write a TV show, I want to, and then I want to star in this. And, you know, it's like, it's great to have those goals. But I think sometimes as comics, it's like, if you're doing this, I was watching a Jimmy Carr interview. And I think I'm not a big fan of his comedy, but I think he's so philosophical when he speaks, and he was talking a lot about that, where he was just like, if you're a fool, if you're making money, full time from comedy, that's it, you're done. You've made it like, there shouldn't be any other thing that you're you know, and I feel the same way. And it's like, yeah, there's opportunities that come along way. But at the end of the day, I just love my lifestyle, and I'm able to choose what I do. Whereas if you work for an agent, and you're working for a product, or whatever, you're at the mercy of them as well, because they see you as $1 sign not as, you know, as a person, not all of them, but it's generally a lot of it is like okay, how much money can we make out of you? Like, yeah, and

Speaker 1 19:06

it's the grass is greener, and I've seen with the book industry as well, like, you know, the self published, I guess, versus, you know, in self produced versus having Yeah, traditional publisher or agent? And then, yeah, what you think, you know, the success of the book you like, that's amazing, you like it, but they're making $1 a book, you know, like, and they don't, they can't they don't own the content people like, you know, not super like fighting to get their, their rights to their content back and things like that. And then like, think again, COVID or just times is shifting, and I guess digital and accessibility, that that what was very difficult in the past or not recognized is now like, you can't really tell the difference between a self produced or self published versus a traditional probably, didn't you? You can't tell you like, Oh, look who got you this thing and you're like me, who did this? Me? Or me and my Exactly, yeah,

Speaker 2 19:56

exactly. It's like one of those things where it's just like, okay, Really? Yeah, I mean, I get it, I'm sure it's like most industries, but that is the beauty now. I mean, the beauty of having social media and being able to do and promote, self promote, and everything is like that. But then also on the flip side, you have so many more people also doing that as well. So it's like, how do you stick out above? I mean, it's the same with businesses. I see. You know, I was watching a picture the other day talking about this one coffee business, I think in somewhere in New York, and they've just been able to make such a viral Tiktok account, but not about the business. But they're like, obviously, talking about coffee and like this kind of stuff. And it's like, yeah, how do you make yourself different from the rest? Or how can you get that following? Or how can you make a brand for yourself is like, yeah, it's, I mean, that's the next stage of marketing and moving forward as a self producer or self promoter. It's like, how do I yeah, how do I? How do I move with the times because it's constantly changing. Even in the 15 years that I've been self producing, it's just, you know, I mean, same for you. Like when we used to produce 1015 years ago, it was very different to what it is now.

Speaker 1 21:05

Absolutely, like the avenues that options, possibilities, but also the challenges. And the Yeah, always always the, the sheer volume was always going to be the challenge. And you can get stuck in that and go, Oh, my gosh, there's so many other things. Or you can go okay, well, how do I do it my way and run my own race. And I think that's what I've loved seeing of your journey is that you've found this path. And that don't really feel like you seem to I'm sure you still have colleagues and things like that. But I just feel like you just you found your lane, you found the way that it works. You found your rhythm. And you're just traveling the world and you said before 67 countries in my head. I mean, is that all? Not? Just because you've been traveling this so long? I'm like, surely. But I guess you're going back? No, I

Speaker 2 21:53

think like 67 countries is how many countries I've performed in I think visited, it's probably like 70. But yeah, I think, but also. Like, I know, I think was probably like in some countries way, like, you know, you can't really perform. It's also a little bit more difficult. But for the most part, I think also, when we were when I was traveling so much, it's like I would go back to the same places like I haven't done Central and South America. That's a big part of the next tip that I want to do. Also, you know, there's a lot of countries in the world where you can't do English comedy, or like in terms of visas or in terms of like this, like, you know, a lot of particularly Asian countries like Malaysia, China, Hong Kong, like now they've tightened up the visa situation. So it's a lot more difficult for this because I don't know, they're scared of free speech. I don't know. So yeah, I think like, yeah, it is but also having said that, like in that 67 countries, like say South Africa, for example, like I played all the major cities there. So Johannesburg, Pretoria, Durban, Port Elizabeth, Cape Town. So it's like, not just like one city. It's like, oh, we went to like a bunch of cities in in this country. So it's I've played in little towns in random countries that people will be like, really? Like, what the like, why would you do a show that but so I think that also is a different. Yeah, even though it's like 67 countries, but it's like I've seen a lot. But

Speaker 1 23:24

it's a lot. No, it's a lot. But this is my warped sense of, Well, I want to visit 195 or 100 un recognized countries. And so it as well, you know, when you get to this high volume of countries, is it like, oh, it's only 667? You know? Yeah,

Speaker 2 23:41

it's such an easy thing to do. Much like you can't,

Speaker 1 23:45

surely it's more, but I know the repetition and the repetition for myself. This is my 15th visit to India. So had I not revisited countries and just done the Tick Tick tick tick. Easily would have entered countries 195 times. But I think yeah,

Speaker 2 24:02

I think I get frustrated because there's so many places, like I used to travel with, like, an African American guy. So we I felt like I I know, this is like the but when we went to Egypt, or when we're in South Africa, when we're in Kenya, there was some countries where I felt safer traveling as a woman because I had someone with me. And also different like in places in Africa, like traveling with a black person was like a little bit. You know, it wasn't so targeted in the sense I felt very, a lot safer. But I feel these YouTubers that do they go to like Afghanistan, they go to a run like all this stuff, and I'm like, That's great. You're white man. Like you can go to these places like I would be the same. I would love to visit every country on this planet. But there are some countries where as a woman solo traveler, it's just not really possible. Like, I mean, everything is possible, but it

Speaker 1 24:58

would take more work. It takes a lot more planning, it could take in one of my other case studies, and we'll be on the podcast, Ben south all did all the way through Africa a year in a van touched every single country sort of round. And yeah, they would like, you know, there were things that he ended corruption, you know, I don't know, do you have a weapon that like, you should have a weapon, like those sorts of things that he had to navigate. But yeah, he traveled as a solo male and navigated that. But I think it's that the gender thing, but also the purpose, right. And I have a mission to visit every country, but it's a visit. Whereas when we're talking working, that's a different conversation. Don't want to work in all those countries. I mean, inadvertently, because content creation, it could be like work, pretty much always got my business on. So I could work there, but I'm not. I'm not gonna stand up and do a speech there. I'm not gonna stand Yeah. presentation or deliver a retreat or a workshop, you know. So it's,

Speaker 2 25:58

I think, well, it's very different. I mean, different. I think for me, like I wouldn't, there's obviously, and we've had this before, where there's like some countries where I would not even attempt to do stand up like, we were supposed to do a show in Amman in Jordan years ago. And everything was like sold out, like 600 tickets. It was crazy. And then like, the day before, we got an email from the venue saying you need to get approval from the ministry. And we were just like, I don't think this is going to happen. So we just because we knew like, if we did go and we tried to do it, like we could be arrested, we could be like, there would be a bunch of things the same. You know, there's the same in Egypt when we did a show, which was probably not really legal, probably shouldn't have done that show. But anyway, we did. But they actually have like debauchery laws, like they have laws where if you are on stage in public talking about sex, or anything, like they can put you in jail for that, and you're in countries where there's no, there's not really a lot of help like you pretty much on your own. And it's also on us. So yeah, I mean, I wouldn't want to work with like, I wouldn't want to work in all these countries, obviously, like, you know, I'm not gonna go into a show in Afghanistan and be like, Hey, guys, like on my show, let me talk about sex like, but I would still, you know, love to visit these countries. But yeah, it depends depends on which one's

Speaker 1 27:20

a holiday and maybe a different time of life and maybe a different circumstance. And I think you've been Yeah. In this time, what you've been doing in the way that the tour is gone, and sort of the purpose of the tour and what it was, and we should give context. I mean, sort of set an intro, but you do it. It's a dating. It's about dating. So that's where the real travel started, right there real travel in comedy. Michigan. Yes, again.

Speaker 2 27:48

Yeah. So it was all about a dating show. And I mean, that was also pretty COVID, where no one really knew who we were. So it was like, we sold the show as like a comedy show about dating. And it wasn't really about me or him as like a comic, like we weren't selling ourselves, which I think is a lot harder to sell yourself. Because then people have to be like, well, who are you like, whatever. It was a show about dating. And that kind of gave us, you know, the ability to travel the world and also get to know a culture through their dating, which for me, was the most fascinating aspect of it, like 65 countries, and you're hearing people in random parts of the world tell us like, you know, what dating is like there or how things like, you know, so yeah, I think, for me, that was great. And then obviously, post COVID, when my videos went viral during COVID, like I was able to then to solo and do that. And it's been a very different experience. But yeah, still being like, still being just as good and just as fun.

Speaker 1 28:53

And like this, you know, I'm in India right now. And it was so fun to be in interview with you. But it was, I watch your videos, and Elena produced the videos, and they're amazing, these. She's doing great on YouTube, but on you know, we get these little snippets on Instagram. And there's things we're listening to. Oh, my God, a couple of you're talking about that. And yeah, but one of the things that wasn't wasn't sex. I mean, this is a strange country in it. There's like the legal these modesty but also they're they they the Kama Sutra comes. Yeah, so yeah, mediation, but also the video though. You were talking about that? I was like, Oh, my God. Elena, you can't talk about that. You were talking about cricket? That's like, talking about the World Cup. It's just happened and we paid them like, like I was

Speaker 2 29:35

talking about. Right. I think it's funny because sometimes you don't realize what you're talking about, like on stage like, I mean, I have a friend comic in Mumbai. And she goes on stage. She's Indian, and she was just like, I hate cricket. And this clip went viral and like literally if you type in WhatsApp in the gift, if you type I hate cricket. A photo of her comes up as a gift. It's like I hate cricket. And she got so much hate for it like death threats, she's still everyday gets death threats. How dare you say this about cricket? And yeah, for me, I was like, I was like, No, I'm just gonna put out that video but obviously they know like, you know, it's also a lot of Indians have like watched it and then they comment on it and this kind of stuff and you know they they've actually been very good about it a little bit of like, oh my god I cut Yeah, yeah, yeah, like kind of stuff which is fine. And the fact that I understand cricket and like what like those crazy but I also didn't realize and this in India if you say anything about religion not just Hindu Hinduism or any any religion, so even Catholic or Christian if you say something about that then if someone in the audience is offended by what you say, they can go and file an F IR, like a report like a report against you in India for saying that like, basically, yeah, you're defamatory to religion, and then you can be like, in jail, and I was like, Ah, I did not know that. So that's why a lot of comics, particularly Muslim comics in India, if they say anything against Hinduism, or that there's a couple of them that have been thrown in jail, like one really famous one. He went to jail for making a joke about not I think it was about a Hindu god, maybe. But yeah, so basically, like, you know, that's also an interesting thing, where there's a lot of countries that are like, Yeah, we have free speech, like, even in Australia, like, defamatory laws are so crazy. So and, you know, in favor of the person that's being defamed, that, you know, if you, there's journalists who write tweets, or you know, like, I could say something on stage about a politician, and they can take offense to it, and then I could, you know, so it's interesting now is like, you know, different countries have different rules. But that's also something that you kind of need to be aware of that before.

Speaker 1 31:52

You need to read anything. They were very upset here about it, it made me really questioned some of my things. Beyonce and Coldplay did a video and she was dressed, kind of like emulating a goddess like Debbie. And it's very kind of upset about it was like, you'll try and make a profit off our religion. And then I was like, a few people have said to me, and I'm like, I didn't think it was this way. But I've checked with friends. I'm like, How do you feel about me wearing sari and wearing salva kameez? And like that's cultural, like, so this issue is cultural appropriation that we're calling out? And they're like, no, no, it's, you know, it's the national dress. It's your You look beautiful. It's like a kind of like, respect, and it's like, oh, thank you for loving it. And I was like, oh, so like, I guess I'm not profiting. I'm not trying to profit. Have I run a travel business with India? But I'm not. Yeah, easily to say, like, get my Instagram. It's like, No, I love this. Sorry. I love wearing it. And it's respectful if you're going to a function as you have been to like device that you wear the dress.

Speaker 2 32:52

Yeah. I mean, I was very hesitant about wearing that because I yeah, I mean, I also used to work a lot in burlesque and you know, there's a lot of girls that were culturally appropriate certain cultures or whatever, like, a lot of them would do like an Asian inspired dress that had no Asian background or anything like that. So I was very concerned, because I was like, oh my god, like, I'm gonna get canceled. I'm gonna like, this kind of stuff. And but, yeah, they said to me, they're like, no, no, like, we love this. And, you know, I when I put up a photo of me wearing the traditional dress, like for the for Divali. Last year, like, and just so many people were like, oh my god, he looks so beautiful, like, whatever. And I was like, I was like, stressed, because I was like, someone's gonna come for me. So I was gonna say,

Speaker 1 33:38

it comes back to intention. And the other knowing the religion thing was a man was having a tattoo of a Debbie on his. On his calf, I'm pretty sure it was Australian, and he was jailed because it was like, yeah, it was like, you don't put a god on your body, like, you know, and I was gonna get a tattoo, and I said, might get it on my foot. I got a TT Devo Bhava, which is written in English, but sort of script style. And my friends had no fake theatre sacred. You don't you wouldn't get that on your foot. And I was like, Oh, that I, you know, it's just awesome questions. And obviously, it's really nice to talking about this because I don't think with my case studies, we've, we do have to talk about safety. And I didn't think you and I do it all the time. So I guess we're always sort of have that good. You are checking for maybe consciously go I need to be safe. But someone you know, went to talk to these uni students. They were like, oh, like you literally traveled to give to have trouble with visas, or were you ever not allowed or did you ever get into like a tricky position of like, oh, I don't like no, because I guess I have a heightened sense of awareness. And like, I felt more unsafe in Melbourne at times than I have here. Yeah.

Speaker 2 34:48

But I used to say the same thing like when I moved to Berlin, and obviously like every city has its issues. Every city is not safe in elements of whatever. But I moved to Berlin in 2016. And it was just after sort of a couple of like rapes and murders that had happened in Melbourne. And obviously, like, the Jomar thing is still, you know, always in the back of every woman's mind, particularly women who have lived in Melbourne. And I, yeah, I moved to Berlin. And I remember like, my house, the entrance to my house was like, on the back of the park. And I remember I got home one night at like, one or two o'clock in the morning, and it was either, like, I had to walk through this park to get to my house, and I was like, walking. And I was so stressed. I was like, Oh, my God. And then like, there was no one around and it was just like, Oh, yeah. And I started to realize, like, oh, actually, this is safe. And I feel that's what I say to most people. I feel safer, outside of Australia than I do like in like Melbourne, particularly, like where I used to live before I moved. And, yeah, it's it's crazy. Like, obviously, I think, you know, I'm not, I'm not saying this too, I'm staying with a friend who's a comic, and we're talking about this this morning, like, you know, as a female comic, like most other male comics will stay on a friend's couch, or, you know, they'll, they'll couch surf and like, whatever. But as a woman, you just, I just can't do that, like, the risks are too high. Like, I don't know, these people like whatever. So I think also, as a business, there's a lot, I spend a lot more on Ubers on, like hotels closer to the venue. Always making sure that you know, I'm staying in a good area, or, you know, people that I'm working with, like, and yeah, there's been some kind of like sketchy things, but for the most part, like, yeah, it's just using your head and thinking ahead and not putting yourself in a situation where you're gonna be unsafe, and yeah, taking Ubers not walking home. And yeah, I get pissed off. Sometimes I'm like, these men, like, they don't have to worry about it so much. And like they have, you know, like, we're making less money as a woman regardless, but then it's just like, you know, these extra things to make sure that you're safe. And that you're that. Yeah, like, you're, you're not, nothing's gonna happen to you on the way home or onto the way to the venue or at the venue or, or anything like that. So yeah, it's, um, that's

Speaker 1 37:10

ancient wisdom, too. And that's really a benefit of traveling for work. And understanding our work is a tax deduction, and it's an investment. I definitely traveling with Matt made me revisit some of that like slowing down and planning ahead, so that it was smoother and easier. But also now i Obviously I travel and work with a husband and toddler, and it has had to raise the level and it's like, I'm not, it's not would we get a car? Or would we get an Uber? Or would we get get like a decent hotel, it's like we have to, and then as well, needing to work and like I need internet, I need, you know, it to be clean and tidy. And so I just think as you get older, too, you realize that there's times where we probably paid less and did things a bit scrappy and sketchy. And of course, we stress that you didn't save your time. It didn't save you energy. You're like, if I had to spend like 50 bucks more sometimes not even sometimes $10 More like I stayed in a hotel. I'm sure you've done it to like a hospital, it felt like a prison. And I was like, This is so gentle. I was like, this is jail. I've been to jail. I'm terrified. I'm not leaving, they'll stay in my cell all night, and then they'll be done. But it's like $10 More, and especially in Asia would have gone so much further. Maybe $20 more. The next place. I stayed I've spent $30 So it was $9 $30 marble floors. Yeah, ensuite.

Speaker 2 38:29

I mean, that's it. That's, that's the same thing. Like now like, once you travel so much, but also you get tired of it, you know, like, I barely do red eye flights anymore. Like I think also because if you're performing or like whatever it's like you have to sort of, but I mean, having said that, I don't know if if technically was a red flag flew from London two days ago, but I left in like 9am in the morning. But of course with the time difference. I arrived at 5:30am Singapore time. So it's like, you know, and then I was like, What do I do? Do I sleep? Like jetlag is, like the one thing that I hate, but I think like the Red Eye flights, I just I avoid them. I think also you've got to think about like, what time you arrive and when you can check into your hotel but I have now with Marriott I'm really, like I'm a high tier so I can pretty much check in whenever I want. So that's the other thing as well that you learn like okay, yeah, maybe I'm paying a bit more for a certain hotel. But if I reach a certain level of loyalty with these people like this thing, then I get perks, like I can check in whatever time I want, I can have a late checkout I have a business lounge that I can work in if I have to take out at a certain time. And for me, that's and I get points which I can then redeem for free nights and like this kind of stuff. So I think you start to learn the travel hacks and I'm still not the best at it. But I think also you know, about like credit card points and all that like Australia's not really great for that aspect of things like Americans a lot more on board with like, these kind of things but um, yeah, so I think you just you just learn little things about okay, cool. Like I don't don't have to sit in a cafe for five hours before my you I can check into my hotel when you know, it's just like, because in the end of the time, sometimes he's so exhausted you like, Okay, I'm just going to go and book a hotel right now. And then it's like then you end up wasting more money. Do you know what I mean? So it's trying to be more focused and more in advance and like organizing the tour in a better way.

Speaker 1 40:20

Yeah, and those hacks, I think they come with, like experience, but also accessibility. And when we were younger, you and I both started so young. And it was like, I think there's people who were used to the corporate thing or the business thing, and then they come out of it. And so they like, oh, we just spend money and you get all these points, and you get this loyalty system and stuff like that. I wasn't loyal either. I was like, No, what's the point? You know, you have to, we have to spend more in order to get the loyalty. But then we got like, 20,000 points for this flight. And it's going to, we're almost at the platinum level, again, for our virgin, which means I've gotten our Platinum until 2026. You know, the perks that we get from that. But there's times where I do sort of, if I don't get thing, I sort of argue with them. I'm like, I've been loyal, I've paid more money to get this. And then you're still saying I don't get the thing. And like, come on, like, you just say how much more money do I have to keep spending in order to get that? So I think you kind of gotta get past that and understand. Yeah, it just sometimes things cost money. And that's the nature of this lively, and

Speaker 2 41:25

that's also the thing of like, being a business where you can, like, you know, ride off things or whatever, like, you know, also now, like the cost of travel has gone up significantly in the last couple of years, and I've noticed it, you know, when I look at my expenses at the end of every year, it's like, oh, travels, go, Oh, okay. All right, great. And it's not because I'm doing anything different. I'm not taking business class flights or whatever. Like it's just because you know, the cost inflation and this kind of thing that's cost of flights, cost of hotels, cost of everything has gone up and which is making it you know, also a bit more difficult for to make it sustainable for touring. On a like, I'm going to Australia now. And Australia is like a lot of the venue's have said to me, and like I've noticed as well, like ticket sales are just really struggling because people, like the inflation is like crazy through the roof. So, you know, it's like, and you say to them, like, Okay, we're gonna cancel this show. And they're like, Yeah, that's fine. Like, we it's just normal at the moment. So I think, yeah, it's going to be like, interesting in the next couple of years, hopefully. I mean, hopefully inflation like goes down. But it's normally comedians do okay, when it gets to like a recession or thing. But I think also at the moment, there's just too many things that people are trying to buy for. So yeah, it's a different different times. So that's also like, as a business, you have to go, okay, how can I change? How can I switch up things? How can I make another stream of income or just to to kind of get you through? You know, not so good time? You actually go play? Yeah,

Speaker 1 43:04

I do think that that promo work, but also the gig kind of gig economy, which you are literally doing gigs, but that that when you've been in that gig economy and that freelance and that working for yourself, you're just like, we're not like, oh, my gosh, my job doesn't pay me enough. And I everything costs more money and odia were like, I'll just make more money. I'll just find more money. Yeah, I'll just have to do a little bit more sacrifice.

Unknown Speaker 43:27

I mean, yeah. And that's the thing, you have to do it.

Speaker 1 43:30

I have to find more money. If I want to continue this way. I have to find more money. And I'm always I say I'm always willing to go back to the promo, like, if a jump came out, that was fine. I'm like, I'll jump on that, like, we skip paid like, an hour, sometimes 50 bucks an hour. Like that crap. I'm like, if that's what it took to in order to keep doing this, I'm like, okay, cool, or, you know, doing a speaking gig and sometimes get paid and vouchers and like, cool. There's actually a, we used a got paid in Visa cards. And I was like, Cool. That's fine. That paid for that. And a couple of hours of my time, but it's like, I'd love to cover that with you that I didn't have covered with as many people sacrifices and we were talking off air about it like, yeah, like it can look like you're living the dream and traveling 65 countries and doing this amazing comedy and sitting on stage looking hot, AF and Elena like is so good. Tell us about some of the sacrifices that you make and choose to make.

Speaker 2 44:26

Yeah, it's a lot like and I think this is a thing that a lot of even other comics will probably look at me and be like, Oh my god, like even I have a lot of friends like my close friends and you like, you know, I'm like, Ah, you know, I just, I just signed up for Soho House. And I was kind of like, Oh, it is an expense. Like, you know, do this with my friends. Like, you make a shitload of money. Don't even worry about it. And I was like, you don't know how much money I make, like, obviously, they're like, oh, yeah, it's just starting out. I was just thinking. I'm like, it's not that easy, because obviously everything goes into the business and this kind of stuff. So in terms of SEC advices it's a lot like I mean, I'm still single, I travel all the time, I've had a couple of failed relationships in the last few years. And I mean, I was dating a comic, which was great for a certain amount of time. But also then that, you know, that changes. And I think people who aren't in this lifestyle, struggle to understand it. So, like, I'm dating someone at the moment that I really like, and he has a very stable job. It's very, like, secure. But he also, you know, it's hard for him. And I say this to Him, like for him to have to accept my lifestyle, because it's a lot like, and I'm very grateful that at the moment, he's been very willing to keep trying and to keep doing this, but I mean, it is a very lonely life, like, I see my family once or twice a year. I'm 35. I want to have a family. But it's like, you know, I'd love to have kids, but like, you know, when you get stuck in this work mode of like, oh, okay, I'm just gonna keep. Yeah, it's this catch 22 It's like, if you don't have something that makes you stop, you just gonna keep on working. Because you're like, I need the money, I'm gonna keep doing this. I do love my job, like, whatever. So I think in terms of sacrifices, you sacrifice a lot in your personal life. It's an extremely lonely lifestyle as well, particularly traveling mostly by yourself. Like when I traveled with my ex, and like, we traveled together, it was nice, because you felt like you had something that you're both in for and working together. So I think in terms of, for me, I find that like, the biggest sacrifice I make is that, like, last year, my my grandma passed away in the spirit of like, seeking hospital. And I, because I had a month of touring already planned, like, I just, I just couldn't cancel that one month, where everything had been booked everything. And it was just one of those things where it was like, you just feel so stuck sometimes where it's like you, yeah, but then again, you also do this to yourself, like, I'm the one who creates this, this kind of stuff. But when, when emergencies happen, or when things happen. That's when you just, you know, you sort of it's so far away, and you can't see your family and friends straightaway. So that's a try and make a really big effort now to do that, but I think, yeah, I guess the biggest one for me would be like a relationship. And having that. And yeah, and also, I mean, also having a home like I, I do have an apartment I grew. It's in Berlin. I mean, I'm really ever there. And you know, it'd be nice to have a home with, you know, have a dog and like, have all this sort of stuff, which is just, you know, I think the grass is always greener. He said this, like you always think about like, Okay, what is? What's the other option for me? Like right now? And I mean, sure, I could live in one city. And I could have that, but would I ever be really happy with that as well. So yeah, it's just one of those things where it's like, there is a little bit more of like a sacrifice that you have to make, particularly, I think, as a woman, I find a lot of male comics. You know, they have partners that are happy for them to tour and come back and stuff that sometimes I find it's a little bit different. Also, if you want to have a child, if you want to have a family as a woman, like, that's something that you need to really think about. And I know you've also you've done it, so I like it's amazing. I look up to you a lot. And I think it's great, because I'm like, oh, yeah, it can work.

Speaker 1 48:31

And I'm trying to be honest about it. And it's like, I'm going to do a video today. It'd be like, if you I'm Ron, I've written a book in, in my chat, one chap, sorry, this is for the book. But I've written a book called traveling with kids. And I'm very tempted to rewrite that chapter. The last few days as don't. Yeah, yeah. Because, you know, there's a near people and I hate I hate when they say it. And I'm like, they just said, it's just too hard. But I mean, potentially for that season, maybe it is too hard. And then the sacrifices maybe that there are days where it's not great, but then, you know, what you were saying about, you know, being there for your grandma, which is, you know, I'm sorry, and I feel that view. But, you know, the same the knee having family overseas, I think sometimes, and it wouldn't matter if you were in a corporate job, you, you know, and you want to leave and they weren't allowed, like so I think. I think the sacrifice is the either. And yeah, exactly. advices that's your choosing, and you're conscious of the sacrifices. Whereas I think sometimes people aren't really conscious of this, that they're still just like you, you have kind of chosen this, and you're not making the change. We've chosen to do this quite alternate way of, of living and working. So we're aware of those sacrifices, but then I don't want you to, you know, I feel sad and I know I do it too. You know, I've done this to myself, like when we put a lot of shame and guilt on it, like I did this to me. Yeah,

Speaker 2 49:55

I think that's, you know, something, something that I think about a lot but I think in other big one in terms of like sacrifices and stuff is that being self employed like, you don't have the same level of health insurance or superannuation or retirement that other people who are working in a full time job and like, I mean, obviously, this is the social construct of I mean, a society now, whereas like we are from, from primary school to high school and being designed to work in a nine to five job like, that's what, you know, particularly, I mean, Australia is better for it in terms of freelancing and self employed, like they actually, because it's such a big self employed with tradies and culture in Australia. Whereas like, in Europe, they're not really for the freelance, the self employed, like you pay more for health insurance, you. Everything is more expensive, you have to put in money for your superannuation, your retirement fund. So that's one thing that I always think about, you know, later when I get older, it's like, do I have enough health insurance? Like, do I have enough retirement? Do I have enough like this that, you know, and I think that's something I struggle with, particularly at the moment after, you know, watching my grandma passed away, and having all this like, kind of, you know, health stuff that comes into your face straightaway. It's like, oh, wow, like, all my friends who work in a company, they have incredible health insurance, they have the ability to see specialists if they need to, like, you know, say the same thing. Like, if you want a child, like, you know, if I want a child, I have to call my health insurance and be like, hey, I want I'm thinking of having a child and then that doesn't kick in until six months, like after that time. So it's kind of like 12

Speaker 1 51:35

months. 12 months? Yeah, yeah, it was.

Speaker 2 51:38

Yeah, yeah. When it's an unexpected pregnancy, like, I know, when

Speaker 1 51:46

I accidentally, they upgraded my, ah, they can't figure out my own program. And so they had put me on to a new one, which had the hospital cover, but otherwise, we wouldn't have been covered. So it was like a dependence. Because yeah, we wouldn't have it was 12 months, so we wouldn't have been out of the cupboard. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 52:03

And that's the other thing. It's just like, Yeah, so there's a lot of things. I mean, yeah, obviously, as well, like, I put money into my own superannuation fund. I also put money into stocks and this kind of stuff, because I'm just like, you know, I've realized now in this here that, yeah, like, I'm the one who's in charge of that, like, normally with a company, they do that, like, you get your tax back every year, like blah, blah. But for us, it's very different. I think financially, it's a but again, it's, it's a trade off, and maybe it won't be forever. But you know, you just always have to have, you always, always have to have a lot of savings as well. That's what I have learned. Then,

Speaker 1 52:41

you said, obvious. I made a super contribution after selling my investment property this year, I have not made a self I did not know how to contribute. I've had a few. But I have, I literally was like to my account, I don't know how to do this. And like, how to do this with my income. And we even discussed I like, I'd really like to do a monthly thing now. And she's like, I don't want you to do that I want let's do it like, kind of green amount at the end of the year out of the financial year and has to look different. And so you have all these people going, you should be contributing to super you should be doing this, you should be doing that. And it's like, this month for I don't get paid this three months where I don't get paid. And then I get it rains, you know. And so yeah, like, I don't think it's obvious. I think it's great that you've made that choice. And the financial literacy has been a big thing for me the last few years. And that's, I'm glad you've talked about it, but it's not obvious. And it's a

Speaker 2 53:37

bit this. Yeah, exactly. And I think this is like, I mean, no one ever taught me. You know, like, my dad's accountant. I got my dad when I first started my dad's accountant was my accountant, but my dad's accountant, like my dad's a farmer, so like, my accountant was like a farmer guy. And I would come in and be like, hey, you know I'm using this dildo as a prop like in my show like Can I can I claim this like I had no idea and he was just so like straight he was like he's like I don't know and then he's like, why why did you you know, why have you claimed like 10 packets of condoms and like because I do this song about like direct and like whatever. So that took me a while and then you know now I've got a great the real to like Lily teal Lauren to like she's an accountant in Adelaide who deals mainly with with artists and I moved to her after a bit of it so it's it's hard you got to find a good accountant but I think I don't know who told me about like the self putting money into there but it's tax deductible. So that's the thing I'm like, you know, at the end of June every year I'm like, Okay, I'll just put in so much money. I mean, I do put it monthly but if I have extra I'll just put it in so then I can just you know, so then it'll bring my tax rate down as well. And I'm like, hey, at least it's going in to something so I mean, there's these are the things that no one ever talks to you about like you know as a as a freelancer or whatever. Like there's no school like at school you don't do a subject on tax you Are you know, it's so mental that we're just thrown out into the world and like,

Speaker 1 55:04

we don't really talk to each other as well. And I think it's really lovely when you do have someone and like we said a few times someone who gets it, and they don't have these conversations, because we do have very unique circumstances and finding somebody, finding people who who can support you who understand what you're trying to do what you're trying to achieve. And I love my account now as well. She follows me on Instagram, it's just like, makes a lot of sense, what you're claiming or like, and she also does things where I'm like, I want to do this, and I should be doing these people said that she's like, but Emma, but the left, where you're at with your toddler, what you want to be doing what you've told me that you want, it doesn't make sense for right now. So which is really lovely that she sees my vision and my dream and and for you like the season of life that you're in, in that that shifts and to make the best situation of the season of life you're in. And then when that changes, then you adapt it and you find the way to work for for that. I've got two more questions for you. I had like 10, but we covered. We covered it kind of I do and I just Yeah, it's great. I really just talk. I don't get to talk all the time. We're never either or when we do we get I'll

Speaker 2 56:13

be I'll be in Brazil, the Goldie in a couple of weeks. So I don't know if you're back, though.

Speaker 1 56:17

I don't know what we do. I think I'm in the US. Yeah,

Speaker 2 56:21

yeah, I think I leave on the 13th of July from the Goldie. So but I think even like Mumbai

Speaker 1 56:26

and stuff like that's how some random play where we cross paths. That What's your questions? Do you think this bleisure life is possible assist a sustainable? So by bleisure? I mean, combining business and travel and leisure?

Speaker 2 56:46

Yes, I do. But I think we've touched on it earlier, it does take a lot of work. It takes a lot of trust in yourself and in your business. And like anything you have to you have to go into it just full, fully believing in it, believing in the idea and doing it. And I think if it's something that someone really wants to do, I would always like I've worked a lot to get savings so that I could make that leap of faith. I would never go into it financially with hardly anything. I think that's I mean, but maybe when you're in your 20s It's like, whatever, you don't really care. And that's when I did it. So I just but I always made sure I had something. So I think it is possible. But I think you just have to again, with a business plan, you have to know exactly what you're doing exactly what it is. I just think it's a lot of hard work. But I think if you Yeah, if you fully wholeheartedly believe in it, and it's something that you love, like then it is possible, like one 1,000% Now more than ever, like maybe 15 years ago, it would have been a lot harder. But I think now like it's a lot easier. What is Yeah,

Speaker 1 57:56

yeah. And I want I that's the goal of the book. And I love you sharing your story, because I want people to see that they can make it work for them. And I think one of my questions to you was, do you want to travel less? Or do you still love it? And I think, you know, don't look at me and Eleanor and go, Oh, gosh, I need to travel to 65 countries and work as I go and and you know, I did an episode this last week about it's okay to switch off. It's okay to still have holiday visit Afghanistan just for a visit for a holiday if you want to. It doesn't always have to be work and travel. But yet, we're not asking anyone to do it the way we're doing it. We're just showing you that. Look, it's possible. We've taken it to the extreme, but it's possible, right?

Speaker 2 58:38

Yeah, I think I mean, I would like to travel less. I think that is definitely something that I am. I mean, this year in particular, I mean, I traveled a lot. 2018 2019 even 2020 Like it was a lot. And I think there's elements of PTSD to that because it was just stupid. Like it wasn't healthy. But now, I mean, now also, I've been getting a lot of like, anxiety flying, which is like I was saying to you earlier, I just took some valium. I got valium prescribed and it's been a life changer. But yeah, I think that's maybe also my body just saying, hey, you need to slow down for a bit. I think also meeting someone who has also made me rethink traveling and stuff as well. Like it's, you know, it's like yeah, it's great that you do this, but it's also you know, and I've really now made a conscious effort. Whatever happens with us, I don't know if it will, you never know with relationships, but from meeting him, it really helped me change my second half of this year, which is to pull back a lot more on the traveling and make more time to spend with him or like or whatever happens like so yeah, I think it's definitely I am definitely wanting to travel less. But then I say that and I have this he's been insane in terms of traveling. But then the work comes to me, you know, I'm like, I want to travel last and, you know, went to India and back to Europe in March. And then I had to fly to Australia for this first TV gig that I did the channel seven, which was amazing. And then I came back to Europe. And then now I'm back here again. And then I'm flying back to Europe in July, and then I come back for this Hong Kong Comedy Festival in September, then back to Europe, and then I might have a gig in Sri Lanka or the end of November. So like, it's like one of these things where this isn't me creating these opportunities, this is actually opportunities then coming to me. So it's one of those things where it's just like, yeah, it's difficult, but I don't know, I My goal is to just pull back a little bit. But the good thing with Europe is that, you know, you can pull back on, it's more than flying, I think the long haul flying, but in Europe, like, you can take a train or a bus for a couple of hours in your new city. So for me, I love that aspect of it i to be able to, you know, just jump on a train and in two hours being another fitting into that. So yeah, I think yes, I do want to stop as much as I as I have been. And I do think that like meeting someone as well has, like, helped me kind of shift my thinking of that. Because otherwise, I would just keep doing this pace and not stop.

Speaker 1 1:01:25

Will and I always ask people like what does living a life you love look like? Because what if I asked you that two years ago? And if I asked you that in two years time, that answer is different. If I ask you in a week time, it might be different. And I love ya, I love how you shared that. And you know, and I said before, I think we have to accept who we are, offer arrows that we have to accept who we are. And I sort of said this stuff and just have a break. And but we are entrepreneurs. And we do love this travel. And we I think we've got as far as we have. I'm speaking for us both because of saying yes to opportunities, and sometimes things a little bit extreme or pushing because you know, that channel seven gig like that is an opportunity that you kind of have to say yes to, and that that's the next leap. And but maybe then there's times where it's like listening to yourself and going actually, this is the time where I need to move that call or not do that thing because I just need to sit by the pool or sleep in or sit with my partner or whatever. Like, that's, that's the wisdom. And that's the

Speaker 2 1:02:28

choice. Yes, yeah, exactly. 100%. So yeah, I mean, it's one of the things that if opportunities are coming at me. And also, I want to take a little bit more of a break this year, because I'm hoping that next year, I will have a US visa and then I can finally do that. So we'll see. But you know, that's the other thing. It's like, okay, if I just take a bit of a break this year, and then just also I had a very big year, personally, like last year, so it's like, you know, and I haven't stopped since then. I think when I saw you in November last year, I was still in this like, I'm fine. And then you know, a mental breakdown happens. And you're like, Okay, I'm not fine, but you know, yeah, so I think like this year, as well as it's like more kind of, like now I'm going back to Australia, mainly to see family and have a holiday with her family and just kind of chill a bit. And then hopefully, yeah, hopefully next year, starting next year will be a bit a bit more bigger. But yeah, we'll see. I don't know. Yeah, the goal like is the thing like your things always change and you never know.

Speaker 1 1:03:30

Last Last question, what is your dream destination to work in?

Speaker 2 1:03:35

Oh, oh, dream destination. Well, I guess like you can cross off all the 67 countries that I've already done. I so I mean, for me, like I have performed in the US. I performed in pretty much most of the big cities in America, except for New York. I've never performed in New York. And that's like my dream is just to like do a show in New York. I think since I've like was a kid it was like I just want to do a show in New York. In a nice Theater in New York like that's my thing. So I think yeah, I've done like DC I've done Tampa, Florida I've done a show in like you know New Orleans I've done a show in go down like Reno Nevada, like I've done shows all across America, but never New York City and that's kind of like my dream destination to do a show. And also central South America. I really want to go to Brazil and Argentina and this kind of stuff. But I think for me at the moment New York is like the kind of the goal so hopefully this visa will come through I don't know

Speaker 1 1:04:43

that so I say that it's very interesting question because I've said like when I think dream destination, I think Antarctica but then I'm like no, I want to go there as a holiday and I want to experience it and know Yeah, content creation, but I don't want to be working. But one of mine is I kind of want comes to my mind. I Think of doing speaking in New York. So with my book or speaking,

Speaker 2 1:05:06

I think there's just something about New York but just has it you know, like, I mean, in any like the time, my dream destination to just go to his Alaska like, I really want to do that. But I probably would do a show in Anchorage because that's just to who I am. And it's a tax write off. So, you know, for me, it's like, I don't mind that because for me, like doing a show is much more of a cultural understanding than, you know, going and seeing stuff like I like I would love that. Because like, what are the people like, what do they love that? Ah

Unknown Speaker 1:05:44

go away.

Speaker 1 1:05:47

Oh, look, I mean, yeah, we've talked for way longer than I said, we weren't Yes. But I love it. And I just want to say, in the least condescending way possible. I'm so proud of you.

Unknown Speaker 1:05:58

Like, Oh, thanks. Likewise,

Speaker 1 1:06:01

I just love having somebody who really gets it. I love seeing what you've done. I just I love looking back on a little promo girl days. And then that night at comedy festival and just how you can I don't know it, just you dream it and you can do it. And I think you're doing it.

Speaker 2 1:06:19

Thank you to look at you just doing all these like retreats and stuff. I know, I'm still the retreats is still in the back of my mind. Like I'm still. But at the moment. It's like trying to figure out what's the most important at the moment. So

Speaker 1 1:06:33

it's time there's time we have time, no matter what well, we will find a way to connect around the world. But I know this will inspire so many of the audience and people in the book just to see that there are other ways there's other possibilities. And you keep leading the way with that. So thank you for making time. I hope you get some rest. And I'll see you wherever I see you. Next. Yes, thank

Unknown Speaker 1:06:59

you so much.

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